Knowledge Is To Be Known
Without Subject And Object

… Tell me one thing: What is that which is called relation? What is your relation with your computer, your bicycle, your car, your wife, your mother, your father? All of you have heard this word “relation.” And I am asking him if he knows what its meaning and knowledge are in his head and heart? Any of you can also think about this.

Gyan Prasaad: I would assume that relation is just the idea I have towards something.

Swamiji: We also accept “idea.” Then I’ll ask, What is that which is an idea? This is where we expect from Guru that “Guru should do something with my idea, which doesn’t go out of my head, and I think that it exists. Guru should do something that it should go away.” And Guru knows, “He’s right. If it goes away, then whatever remains is what he is.” So you do not have the knowledge of what you are. You know the knowledge of a computer, or an engineering subject, and machines. So you are related to things, to forms, to persons, to the body, to the mind, to the eyes, nose and teeth. You are related, and related in such a way that you know, “These relative forms are me and my true nature.” …

But Self is your truth, and it has no relation. It is reality. You can hear this, but you will not know it unless the power is there not to continue dwelling on the level of your mind. You have the power to dwell on the level of the mind for the whole world. So you are the indweller of the mind, but you are not reaching the root, the reality, which you are. That’s why Guru is needed to tell you that you are That, not this. So Guru says, “I have made this, I know this. And it is suffering to you. And I have made That, but you have nothing to do with Me.” So if at all you have a relation with this, then this is changing and dying. Thus, you are afraid. There is fright, concern. Your reality is your body. Your reality is your mind. Your reality is your thinking. Your reality is your desire. That is what you have been taught, and you have accepted it. …

At this time, at this moment, the mind says, “I am this body.” Nobody can change it. But in deep sleep, you do not say this. At that time, there is nobody who has to exert power to change it, it is already not there. So now I have brought in you this awareness that your Robert is in the waking state. Half of your life is governed by Robert and half is governed by deep sleep. So, there is ignorance and knowledge, and that is the life of a human being. …

It was a really good [cricket] match. That is what Guru and disciple are. Unless disciple and Guru match, they don’t believe in each other. All of you have been taught not to match with Guru, which means not to match with higher awareness, rather, only to match with the disciple, the body. So the body is your disciple, and the Knower is your Guru. But you don’t believe in Guru. It’s not that Guru is this [pointing to the body]. Many people say, “He’s my father, she’s my mother, she’s my sister, he’s my brother,” and, in the same way, “He’s my Guru.” This is relation. So I had asked, What is relation? You made a relation. Relation means ignorance. That is what I wanted him to say. Relation means ignorance. If you have a relation with anything, it means that you are ignorant that that thing does not belong to you. When you know that that thing does not belong to you, then this is knowledge. …

If you really want to be Pure Free Forever, you will be. Those who want to be Pure Free Forever, they will be. But you just talk about it, that “I want to be Pure Free Forever.” You want to be Pure Free Forever, and I say you are already Pure Free Forever. So then you can understand, “Yeah, I really don’t think like this.” Then I’ll say, “Start thinking about it.” Because that’s the only tool with you, and you have to hear that this tool is Pure Free Forever: there is no guilt in it, no mistake in it, no fault in it. This is what I know.

When I know this, then I think at this moment in this way. But you don’t think in this moment in this way. You have an individual body, I have an individual body, and in each individual body, each one is thinking. Check yourself at this time, check your own thinking. [He snaps his fingers.] The first thought came. Nobody knows what thought came in you. In me, a thought came. I’m free to tell you. But you don’t tell me your thought. Because you are attached, being bound by a covering power not to expose your mistake by birth that you are a body and you are a name. You say, “I am a name and a body, and that is real.” Now I’m not that Taliban who can finish you and show you, are you name and form? No. I just tell you that name was not there when you were born. And your mother was a virgin before she married. So, where are you? Such things I can say because I imagine, the way you imagine. You imagine that you are mistaken, you are faulty, you are this and that, and I imagine you are perfect. [He snaps his fingers.] That’s all. …

We say your attention is on Guru and he is there within you. But you think he is outside, external. Why? You have imagination. So you close your eyes and you watch Guru. But you don’t accept it is Guru, because you are so me as a body and mind that you think, “Well, I close my eyes, but I don’t see any form or any thing. Even Guru is not there.” That is where practice is, that your attention is to be on Guru. …

Without eyes, you do not see the world. With eyes, you see the world. Your eyes are not the tree, so when your eyes are closed, you don’t see the tree. When your eyes are open, then you see the tree. When this is so, why does the tree exist? You understood. It’s vision that exists.

So, it changed. Guru is capable of bringing this change in you. This change is Self Realization. But you are so in the habit, so rooted in it, that you don’t say that vision is the world. You say, “The world is out there and vision sees it. I see vision and then vision sees, therefore I am here and the world is there.” [He snaps his fingers.] You got caught. Relation has been created.

Thank you. Those who are able to think and realize every single day, they will know how difficult it is. That’s why a strong person is needed for that. …

Aparajita: … When Gavin asked how he can see Pure Free Forever, you said that which is not there you can never see. That made it so clear, because the attempt always comes automatically to use one’s senses to know it, whereas it is beyond the realm of the senses. So even when I meditate, close my eyes, but I try to see it in that way, it will never happen. Can it just be experienced when I close my eyes, if I cannot see Pure Free Forever?

Swamiji: It’s very right. Being with Guru, this question comes that Guru should comment on, “Can experience happen, or can I see that which is experiencing Pure Free Forever?” I will start with some examples which you know. You know Nehru University, and it is held in your experience. In your experience it is held, “In my mind, there is an impression of Nehru University.” Nehru University is not here in Kullu, so you have to conclude that it is in the mind. And you know, “It is in the mind—which I know.” So then the mind is also not there. That means, you know I. If you know I and in that I your mind is there, and in the mind the whole world is there, then why is your I not the whole world? So seeing the world as a whole, you are seeing your experience. Thank you.

So it can be experienced. Otherwise, you will not be able to live in the world. It would look like, “Oh, the world is there. The world is a problem. The world is doing this.” Your I is the world. If your I is the world and it is always with you, the closest being, then why do you have to see that I is there in the Taj Mahal? The Taj Mahal is in I. Not only the Taj Mahal is in I, your body is in I, your mind is in I, your senses are in I, every single atom, your hundred trillion cells are in I. And I is not atomic. That is where a human being does not know. Because he wants to know with the atomic structure, which is the ego-intellect-mind-body.

So that which is not there—form—he cannot see. Gold has a ring, a form. Gold is being seen, round metal is being seen, but the ring is not being seen. Yet a human being says, Ring. Now, what can you do? Because he wants to put his attention with his mind on form. When form is not there, how would you know it? So deathlessness is no form. But you only see form, and you can’t get out of it. You hope that “Something should happen that I should change my view.” And nobody else can do it other than you. So be firm and do it. …

Deep Priya asked if there is anything that can be done. I said, Yes. What is to be done? Knowledge is to be known without subject and object. You should identify with That. That Knower you are. That is to be done. That is the practice we do in meditation. In meditation, many people don’t exactly know what is to be done, because from the very beginning they have identified with the body. The body has never been you, the Self, I. That is where the problem is under the banner of science. The science that we have learned in school, in the family, or on the relative field, that science is the human mind. And the human mind was not there in a child. It came. That which was not there, at what time did you find that it came? You never cared to know this. Guru says, It never arose. That is what you have to know.

Dikpal: When the child comes to the point that he begins to perceive the reality of me and other and objects, that, you say, has to be known as having never arisen?

Swamiji: Yes. But when people say that it arises, how can a child come to know that it never arose?

Dikpal: Only when he develops, comes to wish to be free, and meets Guru.

Swamiji: Yes. So he develops through experiences that he sees a rope, but he concludes it is a snake. That arose. The rope never became a snake, yet it arose. So how would you convince a child or person who is seeing a snake that it did not arise? He sees a snake, but the snake was never there. So, the body was never there. But now on that rope, the Self, the body is born, and the child sees the body, a snake. This you call the mind. And I’m saying, No, it never arose. The body is never a snake. The body is always the Self. The world is always the Self. Your senses are always the Self. Your organs are always the Self. Your relations are always the Self. Your eating and drinking and life, day and night, are always the Self. Your world is always the Self. But your mind says, “No. The Self is not, the world is. The Self is not, the body is. The Self is not, name is. The Self is not, the sky is. The Self is not, air is, energy is. The Self is not, heat and cold, happiness and unhappiness is.” That is where Guru says it never arose. But what can you do when you think it arises daily? …

Deep Priya: … Swamiji, how to get those efforts exactly where they should be rather than being superficial efforts?

Swamiji: Efforts are not involved in it. Understanding is involved.

Deep Priya: How to awaken that understanding when I’m dealing with a mechanism that believes the Self is separate from everything?

Swamiji: You have the power. How did you know that these are your nails? They are not nails. They are fingers. How did you come to see nails? The illusory sense. So if the illusory sense became name and form, I say, “Now check, the illusory sense never existed. The Self exists.” That is Self Realization. The Self you are. You call it a body, a snake. That is the problem.

It happens to some people that they understand, “Yeah, it seems to be a correct thing that my body was never there.” You can say a snake was never there, a rope was there. A rope is visible, so the example is alright. But the rope was also not there—the Self was there. That you don’t understand. And it is due to your mind. So it’s nobody’s fault. Nobody has given you any wrong knowledge, or conditions, or helplessness. It’s like that, it’s the human mind, it’s made like that. …

How much is there to understand? You are that who does not die. You have not to do anything else. You should know, “I am that who does not die.” That’s all. And see the result, what happens. Fear will go away. …

With Guru of any kind, if he’s a Guru and he says, “Yes, I am Guru and you are my disciple,” then you as a disciple should not worry: it’s Guru’s job. Whatever he does, he tells you who you are. …