Satsang  –   Volume 17, Number 4: March 31, 2014
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If Your DNA Is The Sky,
You Have No Difference

Swamiji: … Why do you have to copy others and think you will die? This is a mystery. You make me an ideal, as if there is no mystery for me. If there is a mystery for hundreds of people, why not for me?

Dikpal: A mystery is something that you do not know and you want to know. But I never get the sense from you that you have a sense of unknowingness. You always have a sense of knowingness.

Swamiji: Yes. You became successful in having this type of knowledge. Then, if it is not a mystery for me, why should it remain a mystery for you?

Dikpal: It would only remain a mystery for me if I had not dug the sense in myself of always present Knowingness.

Swamiji: The knowledge of always present and Knowingness gives you a chance to use your intelligence and question why that intelligence does not know this? Whereas you know that your intelligence is going to provide you all the answers.

Dikpal: We have become disillusioned with the idea that the intelligence will provide all the answers on the form level. It does not. There still remain mysteries.

Swamiji: Yes. So there is a chance for you to continue using your intelligence, or intellect, until it accepts “I do not know what you are asking for.” Then, whatever remains is the truth. In this way, the mystery gets revealed. But the intellect of a born person is so powerful that he does not accept this. Immediately, the moment he knows “I am here,” he forgets. So there is a very great fight between the Knower, who knows “I alone am forever,” versus the one who knows “You are not alright, you should not think like this: I alone am ever present.” Who says this? The one who knows form. The meaning of form is being sorted out again and again. You say that form is the only reality. I say that this understanding—that form is real—does not exist anywhere. You ask, “How?” I say, “Look, earth was flat enough, and a jug is made from it. Why has it become form?”

Dikpal: Through the understanding of the mind that is perceiving it.

Swamiji: Can you not know that this mind is not perceiving correctly?

Dikpal: Yes, that is possible to know.

Swamiji: Then form does not exist. Gold exists. It is possible for everyone to know this who has become a ring and says, “I am a ring, I am born.  I am a name and I am a form.” We are engaged in living the good life, having the knowledge of names and forms. That is our existence as human beings. But there is a drawback which you find in this thinking, for that which you call form does not stay in the end. And you are making it stay forever. With this type of drawback, you listen to the one who knows that this drawback can be removed. …

As long as we, as human beings, are there, we have to think correctly, so that everything should come as soon as we desire it. [Laughter] At least having come over here, you came to know there is some complication somewhere, which the human mind is not able to sort out. But we are giving enough Guru energy so that you should be able to. How has Guru come to know? And he is the same person as you are. Everything is the same with him. You hope that it should be. You have understood that sixty years before you were not born. How much more proof do you need that you are unborn? Suppose you have known this. Why do you not accept it? As long as a question remains, we have to get the answer. … We, so many persons, have gotten together to sort out this problem of a human being. And I am always there to let you know that this problem does not exist. They say freedom is your birthright. But freedom is before birth, so freedom is always right. … For the balloon may burst, but never the air. …


Bhakti Nath: You said today, “How has Guru come to know, since he is a person just like you.” My mind went, “Yes”—and “No!” Yes, Guru is a human being, just as we all are. But there must be something added, something extra or further, which allows Guru to become knowledgeable of the Self. Am I wrong in thinking that? To me, there is obviously something beyond the human form. But I am wondering if I am misunderstanding the statement you made?

Swamiji: If you think that Guru knows something more than you know, then on whose part is something wrong? [Laughter]

Bhakti Nath: It is definitely my thinking which is not correct.

Swamiji: This is right. Then you have every opportunity to correct your thinking.

Bhakti Nath: Is it possible to know what it is Guru has that…

Swamiji: With your incorrect thinking, it is not possible.

Bhakti Nath: I observe you, I have for many, many years, and in my mind I form a picture of what extra wisdom you have. But, since it is my mind, as you say, it will never quite know that.

Swamiji: Then do not listen to the mind.

Bhakti Nath: Ok. But Swamiji, when I am listening, that which listens is always my mind.

Swamiji: No. That is what you conclude all the time. You are trained for that. You are a kind of good militia man, and your steps go according to your training. Whenever you are listening to me, you are listening from Me. I am speaking from Me, and you are the same. So you are listening from Me. But because your attention is on Glen’s ears and head, you think that Guru’s mouth is speaking, so Guru’s me is different and Glen’s me is different. That is what you conclude. Whereas when our eyes are closed and we are meditating, then Me is one, everywhere just the same, in every being—whether sentient or insentient. But the moment a sentient being comes in your head, your very head is different from your feet. So you never think incorrectly, because it is one Being who has many limbs, eyes, ears, noses, teeth, tongues, stomachs, this and that, everything.

Bhakti Nath: So the only thing that is wrong is not my thinking, it is my thinking that my thinking is wrong—there has to be a better way to put that. I know what you mean, even though I cannot quite put it into words.

Swamiji: That is correct. It is only the thinking that is wrong. So do not take assistance from thinking—whereas you think that thinking is first, and then the whole body is later on. Thus your parts, the senses, do not function properly, because they are in the hands of your mind. They function being bound to the mind. Being there, they became subjects and the mind became the king. The subjects cannot do anything without the king. Whatever the king says, they have to obey. So whatever the mind says to you, you accept as correct. If you have come to know that there is a mind which is wrong, then do not listen to him! Be by your Self. That has not happened [he hits his hand on the arm of his chair for emphasis]. You cannot be by your Self because the mind is surrounding the whole universe, so you cannot get it.

Bhakti Nath: The power of the mind is obviously great, for it surrounds the whole universe.

Swamiji: Yes, yes. That is where the mind power does not allow the universe to go out of the hands of the mind. What can the universe do? You have heard “The individual and the universe,” so for you it became a small individual and a big universe—ideas which are both not correct. Because without you, there cannot be the universe, and without the universe, you cannot be. Thus Guru says, “Stick to Oneness.”  You say, “No, my mind does not accept this. My mind says, ‘The individual and the universe.’ So we have to have universal thought”—which means, include all the legs with shoes in you. This is not possible. Why are we one in the universe? We love each other, we respect each other, we do not hate each other. As long as we are in sleep, we are all one; but as long as we are in the waking state, each one is different.

You hear me alright, but that which is the Knower in Guru’s body becomes the same Knower in your body: so the knower differs. Your Knower becomes the mind, and your mind becomes my knower—thus we are one. [Laughter]  You have to respect the whole body, with all the limbs, organs and everything. But you have to somehow listen to someone who knows that the sky has no DNA. Therefore, there is no difference in each one. If your DNA is the sky, then you have no difference. Guru is that sky who has only oneness, no difference.


So many people are aware of Guru, therefore I thank everyone for knowing that Guru must be one. Millions of people know that Guru is a human form and not the sun. So the sun will listen to Guru. It does not matter if it is the sun or son, all suns/sons are one with Guru. Therefore, salutations from Guru to Guru. That is the sense of Oneness. There is no division. When joy arises in the heart of everyone, that joy is not limited to the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, hands and feet. But a human being says, “Joy comes from the heart.” Another  person comes and says, “No, joy comes from thinking.” [Laughter] Joy alone is. Thank you! [Applause]

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