Satsang  –   Volume 18, Number 7: June 17, 2015
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When The Mirror Is Pure Free Forever, Why Treat Reflections As True?

Questioner One: … Is it that I apply something to the power that makes me think I am a form, which neutralizes that forming power? Or do I just know myself as Free Being, and that knowledge has the effect of neutralizing it?

Swamiji: Very good. That is why we like intelligent persons. Questions should be answered. … There is no such thing that you can ever use your power and you will know the one who has made that power.

Questioner One: So it is not possible. Because the moment I am a person knowing something…

Swamiji: Then you became a car. Thus, you cannot know the driver.

Questioner Two: Swamiji, can that car not use its individual power to dissolve its sense of car, and what will remain…

Swamiji: No, never. Because the car is jar (insentient). A human being is jar.

Questioner Two: A live human being is both jar (matter) and chaytan (consciousness).

Swamiji: This is what jar says.

Questioner Two: How can jar say anything? It is jar.

Swamiji: That is why you are not saying anything. [Laughter] You are able to appreciate that I know your problem—yet you do not know your problem.

Questioner One: Swamiji, what is the virtue of understanding an illusory process…

Swamiji: That question is useless. You are the lord of happiness. I say this. But you do not know it. For me, you are always the lord of happiness. But you think, “No, I am a boy.” I remain quiet. Then I say “Oh, that is very fine that you are a jeev (soul).” You have never been a jeev. You have never been atma (self). Neither are you ignorance—jar; nor are you knowledge—chaytan. That is where there is bhranti, which means deception. To some, we call it imagination. People love imagination, because imagination works for them. Why? Imagination is a tool. All the brushes, paints, canvas—everything is a tool. The hands, feet and brain are all tools. It is a tooling power. It is kali yug, the machine age—it is a machine sitting over here. But you think “No, it is chaytan sitting over here.” You are just chairs.

Questioner Three: Is there a difference between recognizing that illusion and understanding that illusion?

Swamiji: No. Absolutely not when you are asleep.

Questioner Three: But then…

Swamiji: Why “then” when you are asleep?

Questioner Three: But the point of recognizing the illusion is not there…

Swamiji: Just a minute. You must know that I am ready to answer. Why? Since I recognized that I am a question, then I will answer. If I recognize that the question is not, why should I answer? This happens because for you there are two persons.

Questioner Three: If I recognize that the illusion does not exist, then two persons do not exist.

Swamiji: Then the world does not exist, not only two persons. But then somebody will ask, “Then, what exists?” Hearing him, I will come to know he is under illusion.

Questioner Three: And there is no solution for that?

Swamiji: No solution. That is why a human being wants to work for a hundred years to get a solution. In that he dies—and the solution comes. [Laughter] Death is the solution, and no-birth is the solution. In between, there is illusion, question, doubt, intellect, ego, mind and senses. Check. All of you are aware. You have never made the senses, yet the senses are there.

But there is something in you who is ever present. This chap, the ever-present, he is asking questions. But the question will never know the ever-present. The ever-present will not be a human body. A human body knows the present, today, or what time is. You are in your time now. This is your time, it is not another person’s time. You are in your time and he is in his time. Someone just came on the roof, she is in her time. She is coming, and you are sitting. There is her mother’s time—who was once a little girl. Now there is the daughter’s time, she is a little girl and her mother is an older woman. You can hear me because I am none of them. That is why you like me. Because love is not to be known by human beings. …

Questioner One: Is it not odd how we love the description of the true nature of ourselves as Free Being, yet we also seem to love the description of the illusory, form-making process when you describe it to us?

Swamiji: Why do you think that the two are not loved? Both of them are loved. Either cancel both, then You are. Or cancel You, then both are. … If two chairs are cancelled, this is space. If you bring two chairs, then the space is gone. This is happening every single moment, so you do not know it. The moment is so fast, so fast, that a human intellect cannot know it. A human intellect will never know the Space. You understand this. You say, “Yes.” Then I say, “Yes, he has come to know.” But then you say, “No, I miss it. Tell me again.”

I say that the human ego-intellect-mind-senses do not exist. I say this deliberately. Why? Because for you they exist, and since they exist, they are changing and dying. You do not think that they do not exist. That is why the indescribable mind can never be understood. Yet you are trying to understand the mind—with the mind!

At least you are a gyani (knowledgeable), everybody among you is a gyani. But you think you are a bhakta, devoted. You came here not as a devotee, you came here as a gyani, a knowledgeable one. If I do not recognize you as knowledgeable, I cannot talk to you. Seeing someone young and new, you cannot talk to him. You try to talk, but then you ignore him. In this way, you ignore the Space and you are busy with illusion. Illusion is likeable. Without illusion, you are asleep. Who loves someone who is asleep? Nobody loves a sleepy man. They just discard him. Nobody asks him to eat or to have a better cushion. This is where all human beings are. You relish this. And when I say that this is where human beings are not, immediately you get shut or hit.

Questioner One: Yes, somewhere we love the drama of seeking, right?

Swamiji: That is all. Then we also love it, not only you.

Questioner One: I was listening to you talk and I was thinking that maybe there is some weird fear that if I were totally doubtless and I accepted the truth, I would have nothing at all to say.

Swamiji: No. When you accept the Space, you can say anything, everything. … The world is such a joy, to see in the morning that the world is. The sun is coming, Ah! And I, as I, having come to realize that which you do not, am very comfortable with everything that there is. …

Illusion is the same knife that another person has. Both are knives, both can cut each other, and both can be used to make apple pie. This is where we use words, and all words are ignorant—all words, in every language everywhere. Watch. Those people who are more ignorant, they cannot utilize nature, so there is famine. They are such agyanees (unknowledgeable ones) that now gyanis are their victims. … God knows who is an agyani, to whom you say, “Come on and have a dinner and party.” Agyanees should never be your company. I say this. But you like snakes on your arm. [He demonstrates someone holding a snake close to himself.]


Your skill at least works. Why are you trying to use it for that which is not meant to give you the answer: for your intellect? He says, “I want to use the intellect to know the one who has created all these forms, so I should know the form-maker.” You are a form, how can you know it? A car is a form. How can any car know the driver who is going to drive it? It is sitting in the garage, many cars are sitting there. All the drivers are there, and they are creating accidents. Are you asking the car, “Who was your driver?” The driver created an accident and ran away. And you are asking the car, “Tell me, where is your driver?”! …


I take that which all of you know: mirror. You know mirror. Any form, anybody, any name-and-form person, comes and sees the mirror. What does he see? His own reflection. I say you have the power through which you can know that the mirror is always the mirror. If someone comes just now and sees the mirror, she sees her form. If someone came a little earlier and she saw in the same mirror, then she saw her form. The mirror has not changed. When someone else who was here even earlier saw the mirror, and someone came along with her and she saw the mirror, the mirror has not been changed, it is the same mirror. If someone else comes now and sees the same mirror, the mirror never changes and he sees his reflection.

The mirror has no hair of a woman and no age of a woman. The mirror has no age of a boy or reflection of his hair. The mirror is mirror. All of you see the mirror, and in it you see whatever you are. If you are love, you see love. If you are the sense of duality, or hatred, you see hatred.

Words can be used. Someone talked about the mirror and somebody can talk about the reflection. You can use the word “river,” but the river is not there. Somebody uses the word “nadi” (river), but the river is not there. A human being can be explained— that he is nothing but words. He has no name, but a word as his name has been given to him. So he became words. Since he became words, it is the problem of words—not the problem of the world, not a human being’s problem.

Human children are reflections in the mirror. If somebody realizes the mirror is Pure Free Forever, why should he treat the reflections as true? Yet all human beings treat only the reflections as true. Why? The mirror has never changed, but in the mirror five persons saw themselves. What was seen by them? Agyan. What is agyan? The eyes. The eyes are deception, that is all.

I say again and again that the eyes are deception. But you do not accept it. I can sign this letter without seeing and I can sign it having glasses. I am signing the same thing. You see with eyes, and you said that your mummy and daddy were there. Now you have the same eyes, but now you do not see mummy and daddy. Deception. If we eliminate one, the second is gone. If you eliminate the second, one is gone. But the mirror eliminates both—it eliminates all. Then it is Pure Free Forever.

Close your eyes. I have said nothing but “Close your eyes,” which means I have said, “Remove your deception.” Satsang (unity with truth). You are now in satsang. Satsang never changes and asatsang never exists: truth never changes and untruth never exists. For Guru, there is nobody who is an agyani. For the mirror, there are no persons. For persons, they see themselves in the mirror: agyan, agyan, agyan. ...

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