notice that, with meditation, life gets easier, but because I then feel
more comfortable, I find that I sometimes fall away from meditating regularly,
and then things become more difficult again.
Swami Shyam: Things become difficult only when you are unable to retain
the knowledge of your Self. f you are meditating more, yet things are getting
difficult, then you have to get the right information and knowledge.
The key is that if you meditate less, you become like everybody
elsethose who don't meditate. So without using the word "more," you
should not meditate less and remain unaware of the Self, your true being.
Difficulties arise when you are not realizing the Self to
whom no difficulty comes. This is not known to you. And this is what is to be
The being in you is Me, The Self, to whom this body, with
its difficulties and diseases, never reaches. It is that which is originalthis
body is put on later on.
This is to be added to your awareness. You may not get it,
but let me continue saying that you are the Self to whom no difficulty will ever
Kevin: It is when I don't meditate enough that more difficulties come.
So I am realizing more and more how essential it is to meditate regularly
and for a long enough time every day, because otherwise, eventually, it starts
slipping and there is more chaos, more troubles.
Swami-ji: You are very correct in your perception. So continue meditating.
Whenever you complete your meditation, know that your eyes
will be able to see things, but they will not be able to see 'You.' The eyes
and the senses are the bodythey assist the bodyand
body is keeping them. But body is not keeping You. Body is ungrateful. [Laughter]
Sneaking the light of the Self into your intellect
Komaltaa: I like your statement that, 'The Self needs no improvement.'
The dilemma that I've been examining is: what does need improvement? I always
seem to want to present to you the idea that if you could fix something, then
I would understand the Self, so obviously I am thinking that there is something
that needs to be improved upon in order for me to get what I really want which
is the Self.
I've been looking at what it is I can offer you that purely
comes from my heart and that would let you know what it is I need to do so that
I could know the Self eternally.
Swami-ji: I would say that your dependence on this or that in the realm
of time does not allow youthe Selfto sprout or unfold
or sneak its light into your intellect. So the truth has not been able to come
to you on the level of intellect and act as sattwa, the ability with
which you are able to see the Self in all the forms, everywhere, the
Making use of the waking state
This sattwa knowledge has not yet dawned. So you have
to bring it in again and again.
You have come to know the Space as Space. But Space turns
into a person or a thing and you conclude that Space became a thing and a form. Treat
it that you have at that point divided that which is undivided. It is due to prakriti [nature],
and the rajogun- and tamogun-based intellect.
So the purification of the intellect is said to be when you, whoever
you are in this body, are able to perceive that Self is everywhere Self. Self
never divides itself into Self this and world that, Self this and Komaalta that,
Guru this and Komaalta that.
The same sunlight falls on everyone, in every house, in every
heart. That sunlight remains forever. This is the expression of sattwic intellect
or knowledge and this is to be gainedthis improvement is to be made.
The waking state makes you forget. Yet you are hearing the Master or Consciousness
or Guru say that You are not the waking state. Eventually this knowledge will
appear. The same waking state which you use to know that 'I am Komaalta' can
be used to know that you have never been.
Realizing Me, your job is done!
Why did it happen that you began to say 'me' or 'mine' for
the thing that was never yours? Why is that you put on something that walks on
two legs and has a head and eyes and eyesight and ears and an engine insidethe
stomachwhirling all the time, and you began to call this thing 'Me?' In
deep sleep, you don't call it 'Me.' The utterly ignorant person does not call
After hearing me, something happensI cannot say whatbut
you will know that somewhere, Swami-ji is getting you relaxed from the intensity
of body consciousness.
When you are awake, you are body conscious. In deep sleep you are not.
Check: at this time, the waking state is being watched having
a thought. And immediately it begins to say, 'I am thought.' But you are quick
and smart enough not to identify with that which is not you.
Seed thinks that seed is sprout. On the basis of this example,
the knowledge is being given that "Self is all that there is." But
people are getting befooled. In the case of seed, seed is seed and not sprout.
The emanation of seed may be called sprout but it is still seed.
It has been heard in the scriptureseven in my songsthat
'I am this, I am sky, I am air, I am fire, I am water, I am You, I am all That.'
Hearing this and hearing that Self is Guru and Guru is Self and Guru alone is
everything, you are getting caught in the things!
I have written that all the things that you know are the Self.
So give up the idea of thingsof the tree and the sprouts and all thatand
know the Self, be the Self, be tuned in to the Self.
The nature of Self is free. It is just possible that you might get it! But
you have heard that Self is manifesting in the variety of things and forms,
and that what ever you see is You, and therefore you have to love it all. This
philosophy is heard and comprehended and even loved. If this is so, why does
the body, which you love so much, not remain with you when it is dead?
But there is among humans an inherent, automatic quality of
identifying or acknowledging the existence of body as Me. From that perspective,
if I say you are Me, and someone dies, it means that 'Me' died.
So you come to know that dead body cannot be you. That is
a point worth making research on.
You use the bodyit's a brilliant vehicle. We are happy
and grateful and admire this incarnationthis vehicle.
Check: It is the body that perishes. It is the nature that
becomes old. It is the nature that becomes sick. It is the nature that dwindles.
It is the nature that disappears. But not Me!
Realizing Me, your job is done!
Sifting freedom from dependence
Shivnath: You said earlier that we become dependent on things and forms
as opposed to merely using them. How do you determine when your use of things
and forms becomes dependence?
Swami-ji: You are able to see that objects are going to make you happy
or give you health, or get you relaxed from your sense of desire or need. When
objects, persons or situations such as wealth and prosperity, status, name
and fame are given great importance, you say that with them, you will
In this process, the very happiness which is your nature,
your truth which is independence, freedom, life, love, joy, your undivided nature,
got neglected. And you became 'I am this object' and then began to think that
your very survival depends on this or that. If it is not available, you say,
'I am upset, I am small, I am uneasy, I can't work, I can't meditate, I can't
learn, I cannot go anywhere.' This is dependence.
Daily you feel you are not OK, and you feel that if you can
just get some object or thing to come to you, you will be OK. This is the ongoing
saga of dependence. Whereas I am saying that you are already freenirvikaarbeyond.
You think that if you can get the object, you will have improved
happiness, or more happiness, or infinite happiness. Whereas I am saying you
are already infinite. You have never become finite.
Human beings even make division out of infiniteinfinite
is one thing and finite is another. Whereas infinite means there is no finite.
Undivided means there is no division. The dependence is due to the consciousness
of the waking state which says 'I am this.'
Shivnath: Is there a field of action which does not function in this
Swami-ji: Yes, yes of course. When you have realized the Self, you
come to know 'That.' And why should 'That' not function just as well as 'this'
Nikta karm we have to do. Nikta karm means action
belonging to body. Body will always need action because it is made of action.
Daily you have to go to bathroom! You have to have breakfast. You have to dress.
You have to comb your hair. You come to Satsangnikta karm. You read
somethingnikta karm. This is daily karm and must not be ignored.
Any karm that brings in a division state, that is nikta
Where is the ultimate goal? The knowledge of the Self! Independence!
Freedom! When you have come to know the state of freedom, then there is no problem.
That is the only non-problematic area. All of that which is outward and external,
all that which can be seen by the senses is problematic. You call it changing,
changeful, decaying, dying. You are not supposed to be picking up that which
is dying. But you do it all the same.
To know that, you need a Guru.
If you cannot retain a sense of oneness, you get divided and
cannot see the Self as free being, all permeating, without division.
I am emanating the words. And you could say that the words
are separate from me because they are emanated, they are manifested. Somehow,
this sense of duality is to be reduced or absorbed in the Oneness, and that is
The boat, the ocean, the guide, and the Space
I recall you recently using the phrase: 'Sansaar mayaa parivaar jitosi'the
dream of this world can never touch you. And I've been thinking about it since.
When you said that, you also said that human vision is world
vision, and the world is like an ocean made up of waves. We, as human beings
in the waking state, struggle against those waves. And we need someone who has
a boat and is a great guide for us to tell us to get into the boat and cross
the ocean to a beach where we are transcended and just living as the Self , above
In that talk you also said that detachment is the practice,
because when we are struggling against the waves of the world-ocean, Self and
world are mixed. And what I understood when you said that detachment is the practice
is that the attention should be on the boat, on traveling with you and on rising
above the waves of the ocean.
Is that where you are trying to lead my attention? And why
is it that I sometimes think that I can get back in the water of the world and
swim around and still do my saadhanastill get back in the boat?
Swami-ji: You are understanding at every stage the words that I used,
and you get the meaning.
Take the example you have usedboat and guide and you
as a traveler remaining in the boat and being with the guide, and the guide telling
you how to have patience and go across. You have understood this example from
the perspective of you, in this space and this setting, and you, in this setting,
are in a boat. Boat is your body and Me is the Space. And you have become somebody
who now does not know or who has forgotten that you are the Space and not the
If you are sitting in the body, then you have to be with Me,
the Space. Knowing the Space that you are, you have not to be afraid of the ocean
or the wooden boat or the waves. For Space has always been freeabove the
ocean, around the ocean, everywhere. That being is forever free. Having known
that, it is not that you are tempted to go towards the ocean or towards the things
or forms or achievements. It is all right. You do not have to be in a particular
boat with a guide or Guru.
But if the meanings of the words are to be understood, you
are a body, and I am the Space. And you want to be close to me so that you will
know that Space you have been all along. You have never been a body sitting in
the boat. If this perception evolves, then the evolution is being perfected.
Otherwise it is the evolution of the senses. Or mental evolution. Or intellectual
evolution. Or ego evolution.
Unless this perfection of evolution takes place, you will
not know that I am the Space undivided. When you know I am the Space undividedinfinite
Spacethen there is no necessity of talking about how many boats and passengers
are on the ocean and all that.
There remains no world. There is no boat. There remains nothing
to cross. It is all Space. That's what y words mean.
So you will not have to sit and be bound and dependent. You are
independence, not an objective, independent person, a body reality. There is
a difference. Independence is freedom, the Self. Independent is a person, an
objective reality. And this person is seeking independence which can never be
broken, can never be bound by the idea of birth and death. That is independence.
That is the knowledge of the Self. That is the param vigyaanthe
supreme science, and there you will be knowing yourself as the Space, not as
person sitting in a boat or becoming part of the boat. Space sits in the jug;
Space is found in the boat, but this does not mean Space has become boat.
As long as you are tagged to human consciousnessbody
consciousnessyou will not be freed. You will never be able to cross the
ocean, because for you, the ocean is material, substantial. The example of ocean
is given to those people who seek guidance and are tuned into the question of
'who can guide?' The guide can guide you. The one who has been unable to get
the essential knowledge that he is one with the guide-consciousness is made to
sit in the boat and to keep listening to the guide saying 'You are free, you
How many times have I said, 'You are free.'
Through Space, you reach the Space. Through Space, you come
to know the Space and become one with it. Space is the dearest, dearest, most
attractive existence for all human beings. Towards that we are going. And you
are that Space. Already free. I say these things because I know them. You interpret
them according to the level of your own evolution.
This evolution has to take place. Yet for this, there are
no schools, no universities, nothing.
So you are not supposed to be sitting in the boat. Boat is
just a wooden boat. And water is water, a material substance.
But Space is You.
Just knowing this, you are free.
9 February 2000