Satsang  –   Volume 6, Number 8: May 16, 2003
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You Are That Infinite God

[This is an interaction between Swamiji and Gadi’s nephew, Yuval, a thirteen year-old Israeli boy meeting Swamiji for the first time.]

Yuval: I did not come with a speech. I will say a few words with my lousy English. First of all, thank you for having me, and thanks to Gadi and Alisa. I came with a few questions, but I have a million. I suppose you don’t have a million years to answer them, so here they are. [Laughter.] The first question is the most interesting one, and its answer is so important to me. Who is God? [Applause.]

Swamiji: He has asked the question and said that I do not have a million years to answer it. I will take a milli-minute: You.

Yuval: Gadi said that you would say this. [Laughter.] Because he knows you so well, he knew that you would say this. It’s so funny, I don’t believe it. I am so excited to be here.

Swamiji: I can give proof for this answer. Animals, birds, and pets come here daily, but we do not give them a big welcome. Many workers and people come daily, but we hardly welcome them. If a person is dead, we respect him and send him off. So when I am welcoming Yuval, I am welcoming You-God. You can check—without God, you cannot be in this shirt, you cannot ask these questions, you cannot have such a nice mum and dad, you cannot have that uncle or auntie, and you cannot have eyes and see these people. It is happening, and you are doing it. So who is that, if not you? And that is God.

Yuval: Thank you very much. I have four questions, and this is the second one. Gadi helped me translate this one. … The second question is that most people in the world take their existence for granted. But I want to know, who created us and the universe?

Swamiji: The answer is very simple. Without you, you would not never seek those people who take life or existence for granted. You do not have any knowledge of them. Without you, you do not even see them, and without you, you do not know that they have come before you. It is you who got up and began to look at them—you created that. So there is no such thing as somebody else has created them: you have created them.

If you have created them and you are that powerful that you open your eyes and the creation comes in front of you, then you are that infinite God who, whenever you awake or whenever you start seeing, are creating your creation. So it is You whom I had called God. You create daily. You have even created the universe and all the people whom you have said take their existence for granted. It is you who gave them the thought that they should take their existence for granted—because God takes his existence for granted forever. So you are pure, you are free, you are forever. You are the creator of this existence as it is. Thank you.

Yuval: Every time I have watched a video tape of yours—I have watched a few video tapes in Israel—I wonder, what is this? [He points to the mandala on the wall behind Swamiji.]

Swamiji: Correct. When you, as God, have assumed or put on a body-form like Yuval, then you became a small child. A small child does not know that he is going to speak or see. He is so innocent that he also does not know that he will ask questions. But slowly and slowly, God consciousness gets developed, and the child grows in his body. The body, the consciousness, and the thought and inquiry are God—they are all coming from there. They were sitting just as a sprout or a tree sits in seed form. So this body was sitting in seed form, and that seed form was God. This God manifested himself as this [Yuval]. Then, when he began to see the form, or he saw my video with the mandala behind me, then he asked what it is.

The mandala is the symbol of You, the Whole. This round black point in the middle is the same black colour as the larger, outer circle. This white part is the ignorance or innocence of a child, which does not allow this small black dot to be as expanded as the whole thing. So the child sees that this small black dot is a small, tiny, individual, Yuval—or Gadi, his uncle, or his father. He sees an individual. This small black dot represents individual human consciousness. The whole mandala represents the universe as a whole. And this white part represents the waking state.

The moment you are awake, just because of this white part you are divided, you are an individual, and you want to seek and ask what God is, what this mandala is, and what the Whole is. This black and white and black again is one colour; but, with his eyes, the child sees black in the point place, black on the outside, and white also as a circle. He does not see that black, white, and this black point are colour on the canvas, board, or wall. So You-wall, Yuval, is a name. The whole thing is a wall, and You is this, You are there—only the colours are people, thoughts, questions and answers. Is that correct? Thank you. [Applause.] I will tell you one thing. Up to this time, no one has ever asked about this. Maybe you are thirteen years old, but these people, who have been sitting here for thirty years, have never asked this question. So you can understand how unique you are.

Yuval: The next question is: Who created God?

Swamiji: Yes. Nobody else on earth has ever asked about God. The one who knows who God is, he is God—because he is creating God. That is You. Up to this time you thought that “I never knew who created God and where God is.” But when you had uttered the word “God,” it means that you know God. But because you are still a child and body-wise you are not fully grown up, so you are asking for your own whereabouts. It is like the tail of a dog asking, “Where is my mouth?” So You created God.

Yuval: The last question is very long. Listen. Each person and each religion has their own explanation for the existence of nature and God, but in the end most of us believe in the same existence of the same God. So why is everyone fighting one another?

Swamiji: Because they die. That’s why they fight. I will elaborate, because, as he said, this is a long question. Each person is there, and a person is not only one: he has a family of five or seven persons; and seven persons each have relations of thirty or forty people; and then there is a whole village; and the village is not enough, the whole country is there, and there are so many people in the country; and one country is not enough, there are many countries of many people. Thus, not only one person is there, billions of people are there. But see, all human beings are made such that they have two legs, two arms, two eyes, two ears, two parts of the heart, and two parts of the brain. So all people have the same type of body. You can recognize someone from behind and know that a human being is walking; you don’t have to see his face. If you see seven billion people going together, you know that all human beings are walking on two legs. But because of this white colour, each human being does not know why a dead person having two legs does not walk. So if he is walking, it is not the two legs that are walking. It is That, which is not there in the dead body and which is there in the live body. That is walking.

All human beings think that their legs walk and their hands grasp. But many people who have arthritis cannot even grasp a ball. So who grasps? Who sees? Many blind people cannot see. Among seven billion, there must be almost one billion blind people. They do not even see, yet they walk, grasp, eat, and drink. This is a human being. But all human beings have their own thoughts and a thinking mind. Among seven billion people, each human being is different, and, in a moment, each one thinks completely differently. Millions and billions of thoughts are there—as Yuval said, he has millions of questions. But there might be even more, there could be billions and zillions of questions, because you are not just one, you are not a little person. You are That from where seven billion people have come. They are not legs and stomachs. That is not a mother, who has a stomach, or your eyes, which see a billion people.

From where have those billions of people come? They do not know. Because they do not know, they are ignorant of their source material, earth, wall, or sky. They do not know. They only know when they sprout from the seed. The tree of life begins with a sprout: two legs, two leaves, then branches, then eyes, hair, leaves, and fruit, etc. So all human beings do not know whether their body is what they are, or the One who makes the body walk and see is what they are. This has been a human being, and it is nobody’s fault.

Yuval, it is your fault. You made it like that, and it is your choice. Whenever you would like to unmake it, you can unmake it and become like Shyam, who knows this. Shyam knows who walks, who welcomes, and who asks questions. It is not his teeth, mouth, stomach, head, or heart. Who is asking these questions? That is not known to human beings. They all say it is their mind, and that’s all. After that, they say, “It is me.” When they think—“Where is that me of seven billion people, and why is it that all seven billion people each say ‘me’? Why do they not differ in that?”—then they say that me, human existence, is equal. If they know that all people are equal, then why do they fight and kill? They do not know.

Not knowing their true nature as That—which I have just given you in my answer—they do not know why they fight and kill. Those who know it know who came and occupied this seat, who walked up to the stage, who took the chair and began to speak, who is free, and who expressed that he is thirteen years old… When Yuval is sitting here, I am as free as he is and he is as free as I am, because that is God. I speak of the Self to those who have forgotten their own true nature—his Self, my Self, eternal Self, immortal Self, undying Self, unborn Self, unchanging Self. That is what human beings do not know. …

All religionists are trying to communicate to their people that “There is some higher power which is God; but you are not God.” They do not know that without God, a mother cannot conceive. Many mothers did so many rituals, religious rites, and prayers, but they did not even have a rat. So, what is this? You came on earth, not that Orit [Yuval’s mother] paid, or that Yair [Yuval’s father] has done something. If both were sleeping, you would have never come. They were alive. God is alive. That is life, and life runs throughout seven billion people. But they do not know this. The tree does not know that sap, or life, is running through it. The tree does not know that life is running and so these are its branches, leaves, flowers, fruits, greenery, colour, and all that, because the tree is unconscious, or insentient—just a little bit of life, of consciousness, is there. Mountains and varieties of rocks are there, and rocks have all kinds of lines in them. The rocks could have never made those lines, and nobody can break them; they are sort of eternal lines. But even rocks do not know that they are God. Trees, rocks, birds, and animals do not know, and many idiots also do not know. Therefore, you are unique. You are the only one who is asking this question. If you get it, treat it that you became God in a minute. And if you forget it, then treat it that you will develop as a human boy. …

I say you are pure, free, and forever. People think that you are that existence which is a bony, hairy structure, having toes and fingers. It is alright, it is a machine, and it should be. This human being, who has been made like this, is God himself, and then we respect God. But then the machine is changing, and in due course of time the person becomes an invalid and incompetent to have the existence of God within himself. Then, just as you throw away old clothes, he leaves the body and gets out of it. Among seven billion people, every human being requires to know this knowledge. If they know that I am That—and [pointing to other people] you are the same I, you are the same I—then they will never fight.

Yuval: I am God, but I don’t push the world. I don’t know how everything is going, how nature is going.

Swamiji: Because you are too young. So what can I do? I am well established.

Yuval: If I am God, you are God too.

Swamiji: You are God-child and I am God-wise man. You are also you, with your arms and legs. But if you are you, Yuval, then why are your legs different than your arms?

Yuval: Because it is the body, it is not the soul.

Swamiji: So God is not a body who dies. God never dies. I am saying that you are God, and you have been trained from your very childhood that you are the body, so you cannot accept that you are God. Do you see you? Let me know, have you seen you? You have seen you in a photograph.

Yuval: Yes, sure.

Swamiji: You have seen the body, the reflection, in a photograph. So is the body God? Is the photograph God?

Yuval: God is the soul.

Swamiji: God is the soul. But do you see the soul?

Yuval: No, I can’t see the soul.

Swamiji: Then you are not fully grown up, not fully developed. You say that God is the soul. But just as you say, “That is Israel and this is halvah,” then you must know the soul. If you say that this is the soul, then you must be knowing the soul.

Yuval: I can’t see it, but I know that it exists.

Swamiji: It is God who says that it exists, not your body. So God knows that God exists, God knows that the soul exists—that is where you are God.

Yuval: If you know that the soul exists, then you are God too, and everybody here who knows that there is a soul knows that they are God. Everybody here is God?

Swamiji: It is God. It is just as you know that a coconut is a fruit and you eat the inside pit but not the outside hair.

Yuval: Right.

Swamiji: Gil brought dates from Israel for me, but he does not eat the date’s pit, he eats its outer part. So where is the soul in the coconut? Where is the soul in the body? You are welcomed, you are fed, and you are respected, but not your hands, fingers, or toes. Nobody is welcoming your toes; they are covered by your socks. So you asked the question about God, you did not ask the question about you. I would have said that you is You. People have said that God is there, but who will know God? You will know. Yet you think that you are these socks and pants, these arms and feet. If your finger is cut and it is lying over there, it is does not know anything. It does not know that it belongs to you.

Yuval: When the body dies, where does the soul go?

Swamiji: The body never dies.

Yuval: The body never dies? [Laughter.] The soul never dies.

Swamiji: The body never dies. It changes. You were two or three years old, a small boy, and now you are thirteen. Did you as a two years old boy die?

Yuval: No.

Swamiji: Then what? That body is not there.

Yuval: No. It changed.

Swamiji: That is where the body is a change.

Yuval: But after the soul is not in the body anymore, where does it go?

Swamiji: It has always been there. Wherever it is, it is there. It does not go anywhere.

Yuval: And who created the soul and the body?

Swamiji: The soul itself created the body, just as you create toys. You can have rubber dough and create ten boys out of it. You can make the form of the body, but it is you who have created it.

Yuval: I created my body and my soul?

Swamiji: Yes, of course.

Yuval: Then, you created your body and your soul?

Swamiji: Yes, of course. Not only mine, I also created you.

Yuval: And I created you. [Laugher.]

Swamiji: Right, that’s correct. That is called Oneness. That is called the sense of Oneness. When you know this, then you will know that not only you created this, or that I created you, you also created your dad and mum.

Yuval: And my mum and dad created me.

Swamiji: No, no, that is where you are wrong now. You created me, and now you say that you did not create your dad and mum.

Yuval: No, I said that I created my dad and mum and they created me.

Swamiji: No.

Yuval: Why not?

Swamiji: Because they do not say this. They do not say that they created you. Ask them.

Yuval: Did you create me?

Yair [Yuval’s father]: We gave you birth.

Swamiji: He is brilliant, he can find out the answer. Who created the birth? Let us have another question that he can answer. A dream is created. Who created the dream?

Yuval: If I am God, then I created the dream.

Swamiji: If you created the dream, then how many times did your mummy and daddy appear in your dreams?

Yuval: Many times.

Swamiji: So then, you create them.

Yuval: Yes. Wow.

Swamiji: You create them. But they are changing in the dream, so when you wake up, they fly away. They do not die, because they are still there.

Yuval: Who said that when they are dreaming, they don’t create me? They create me, and I create them when I am dreaming.

Swamiji: If you have created them and you know it, then what makes you not accept that you have also created them in the waking state?

Yuval: Yes, I created them.

Swamiji: Also, you can understand that without your being born, you could not have even said daddy or mummy.

Yuval: You are right. What can I say?

Swamiji: So then, you created dad and mum.

Yuval: Now I know that I created dad and mum, but I can’t understand why they don’t create me.

Swamiji: It is for them to know, not you. You should ask questions for you, not for them. They will ask their questions. Do you not give them independence? Are you such a selfish God?

Yuval: I am not selfish. If I am selfish, then they have educated me to be selfish. [Laughter.] It is their fault. It is their fault, it is not my fault. It is also my fault, because I created myself.

Swamiji: Then you also created your ignorance about them.

Yuval: It is everybody’s fault.

Swamiji: Yes, of course. That is what I am saying.

Yuval: And if you also created me, then it is also your fault. [Laughter.]

Swamiji: That is correct. It is very right. I created the fault and I created knowledge. Up to this time, I created the fault, and now I am creating knowledge. But then you co-operate and become knowledgeable. You cannot say, “Well, I am dumb.” … Gadi told me that Yuval asked many, many questions. He said, “Well, I answered him, but he would like to question you.” I said to let him come, because I was also like this when I was twelve or thirteen years old. I asked these questions, and when they could not answer them, I left home. [Laughter.] In the world, nobody could answer these questions, so I never entered the world.

Yuval: Swamiji, how did you come to be such a wise person?

Swamiji: I worked, I made efforts, I read, I learnt. I learned that I have never been the toes, legs, skin, teeth, nose, and ears. I have not been that. I am the soul.

Yuval: That means that everyone here knows that?

Swamiji: Ask them. Do you not know that you are the soul? Raise your hands. [Everyone raises their hands.]

Yuval: That means that everyone here can be such a wise person—at least some of them, I don’t know everyone.

Swamiji: You can ask me, because I have been here for the last thirty-two years. They are wise. They will talk to you and you will have a good time, because they have also come to know that you are wise. … I also gave my children independence, which people lack. Even if you are the son of Bill Gates, he will ask you to do that which you would not like to. How many things do you not like? What is that which you do not like?

Yuval: I will tell that which I dislike the most: War.

Swamiji: That is very correct. Nobody likes war, because the loss of life, killing, and ignorance are involved in it. You are wise enough. Why would you like war? But when war is thrust on you, what will you do?

Yuval: If I have to fight, I will fight. But I hate it. It does not mean that if I have to fight, then suddenly I will love it. I will still hate it, but I will have to do it. What can I do?

Swamiji: No, you will kill that man. Why should you fight?

Yuval: Because I have to. You said it.

Swamiji: But why? You have to kill him. If he has come to kill you, why should you not kill him?

Yuval: There is a saying in Hebrew that if someone wants to kill you, then you have to kill him first 

Swamiji: But if you are not having guns, knives, or anything, then how would you kill him?

Yuval: I would try to fight him with my hands.

Swamiji: But if he has guns and swords, he will cut your hands.

Yuval: I will run. That is the typical answer.

Swamiji: Now you have come to know that you will run because you know that you have the power of running, or the power of making him run. It is a power, and that power is God.

Yuval: And I am God. Thank you very much.

Swamiji: Thank you very much. You are forever free. [Applause.]

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