|Satsang –||Volume 13, Number 4: April 8, 2010|
To Move From The Wheel
… You want to know through this intellect that “Before this body, I was.” But this intellect only knows, “At this time, this body is.” It will guess that “Before this body, I was” must be like this or like that. But this is not what I mean when I say, “You are Pure Free Forever.” So you think, “Then how should I know Pure Free Forever?” You cannot know Pure Free Forever as long as this intellect functions in this way. Pure Free Forever will only be known when the intellect is purified from this style of functioning and is absorbed in that which is Pure Free Forever. And you don’t want to get it absorbed. You think, “No, I should be here, along with whatever my intellect thinks—that this is this, this is this and this is this.” You think that everything is alright. The formula H2O will make water for you, because you have used your intellect and you have made it. But your intellect will not accept that for someone else, H2O does not make water. So the intellect does not find itself capable to know the Knower.
Gayatri: But the Knower gets mixed with the intellect, does it not?
Swamiji: That does get mixed. We say this to you. The Knower never gets mixed. But when you think that “The Knower got mixed, so I became a human being. The Knower got mixed, so I became insentient. The Knower got mixed, so I forgot everything,” then I say, “Yes, the Knower gets mixed.” Then you are convinced, because you are already knowing this.
Gayatri: So then to unmix that mixture is to know there is no mixture?
Swamiji: Yes, there is no mixture. And the illusion or intellect that makes the mixture is also not there.
Gayatri: So there’s just That.
Swamiji: Then I say, “You got it.” You got it, but then you’ll respond, “I got it through the intellect.” The human being is made such: he cannot give up himself, the very maayaa. A human being is maayaa. Maayaa means magic. You have seen a magician. He shows you an ordinary, empty bamboo basket. He covers it up, and then he opens it: there are ducks inside. What is this? This feat is maayaa. So a human being is seeing maayaa, is seeing maayaa, maayaa, maayaa, all the ducks. And there is just an empty vessel. Only a realized one sees it—that there is no maayaa, there is only Space. This is the difference between the realized one and the maayaa-ridden man. …
Maayaa has given its power to the human intellect, with which a human being says, “I am that”—that which has never been. The surprising part is that which has never been he says is. Such as Dikpal was never there. But all of you see Dikpal, because you deal with him, talk to him, go with him, eat and drink with him. How can you say that he was not? But his mother knows that Dikpal was not. How can you get into the head of his mother who knows, “Dikpal was not, and if Dikpal is not now, so what? I’m just the same.” So you have understood that you have always been. … The intellect always behaves wrong, yet you cannot accept this. Why? Because for you, the leaves were not in winter, and the leaves are now. When the leaves were not, you were correct. And when the leaves are now, if at this time someone says, “The leaves are not,” you will not like it. Because you are seeing them. …
Dikpal: … I had the idea that Self Realization did not preclude the normal, illusory functioning of the intellect.
Swamiji: This is your wrong interpretation. If you want me to say something, I can say you are right. But you will interpret that in the same way. That’s why I won’t say it. I’ll say that light does not include darkness. …
Dikpal: That means that light and darkness are opposite.
Swamiji: So the one who is a human being with an intellect and the one who is realized are both human beings, but they are contradictory. One sees light. And your eyes see darkness.
Dikpal: You gave several examples recently, such as the eyes of the man who knows the Self will still see, a thought will still come in his head of his mother…
Swamiji: You must know that he’s sitting in front of you. And he respects you. So he speaks like that so that you should be convinced. Suppose someone says—and that is not me—that the world is dead. You will not like it. Why? He says that the world is light, so darkness is dead. But you see it and hear it and don’t listen to him. You think, “Well, how can you say that?” But I’m seeing that the flowers and leaves are not.
Dikpal: I totally accept that the flowers and leaves are not.
Swamiji: Then the bodies are also not.
Dikpal: It’s all not. It’s only Self.
Swamiji: So then, the world is also not?
Swamiji: So it’s only the Self. If you have understood this, then I say, “This is realization.” But you say that the world is not, because you say that it is. I say it is not, because I have never seen it. [Laughter] This will come. So we hope that unless another power appears in the intellect, you will not know that man is never born. This will only be said when some other power appears, which appears for a person who is celebrating his fiftieth birthday, who knows that fifty years before he was not. It is true that fifty years before you were not. If that is true, then this is not true—whereas you say, “It is true that I have been here for fifty years.” In this way, we try to communicate to you. But we don’t cancel what you see. We say it is alright. It’s spring season. Leaves, flowers and butterflies are coming. It’s a great gala of beauty and joy. You say, “Yes, yes.” Whereas I’m just describing a movie, a theatre, a drama, a kind of make-up thing. …
This life is most precious for this purpose only: you should come to know that death does not exist. And you think birth should exist, but death should not! What kind of intellect is this? If birth exists, death must exist. Either you cancel both, or you have both. But no. The intellect is that which creates both and wants to accept one and cancel the other. It’s not going to work. So you have to use the same intellect for the purpose of bringing the light, which has been covered by the very intellect. So either bring the light—the intellect will not be there; or else do not accept the intellect—the light will be there. …
We have incarnated many times, but we have not given up. In every incarnation, we want to achieve that which is detachment. Today, Gagan told me, “Swamiji, you were talking about complete detachment when you said that Poornima is detached about what her elder sister is eating” [she has no elder sister]. So I said, “That’s what freedom is.”
All the talks are being talked about with the help of the tongue and the use of words. Now suppose I take your attention to that side where words were not, so they were not attached or associated with forms. And you were. And you were alright. Why is it that now words and their meanings have become so important to you, when they were not? … A human being is very important, because he has the power to get there in the womb of his mother, where sense was not made. There, it was only Knowledge as existence and consciousness: that was Pure. We use the words “consciousness and existence” in front of a human being who knows there are consciousness and matter. We don’t give a lecture to a baby. … Human beings need lectures. Lectures and lectures and lectures. Agyani’s [unrealized] lectures and realized lectures are lectures, both are just the same. No question is correct and no answer is correct. Yet the questioner thinks, “My answer has come and it is a correct answer, so I’m satisfied,” whereas that which is satisfied was already there. Somehow, you have to reach there. …
Even if you become detached and do your things, you’ll be like a person engaged in a shop. He moves all the articles while there, but he’s concerned with his few bucks, which he receives after a month. … So whatever you do and think and have the results of, dedicate it all to God, as if you are in God’s shop. You are using everything, whatever he is giving to you, but it belongs to him. When he closes the shutters in the evening, you go home. Then you’ll become detached, and you’ll be better. Then you’ll be free. Freely, you’ll be writing and thinking and all that. … Then, whatever your children do, you won’t mind. “Won’t mind” means you will be detached. The moment you begin to mind, you are attached. This way, even if you hear me for one hour, at least you get so freed and know, “This is the truth. I never knew it.” Like sometimes to Satyam I say, “Rosenberg,” again and again. She’s not even an iceberg. At least she understands this. By saying this, it does not mean that I’m changing her mode of behaviour, her mode of thinking and loving people and giving them care. …
If as a small child you go against your mother, she’ll slap you. After their teeth have come, many children are still in the habit of breastfeeding, and they make a mistake and bite the nipple. So the mother takes her hand and smacks the child. She’s giving you milk and you’re biting her! And that’s what a human being does. [Laughter] Anybody who loves him, he begins to bite. We bring in many examples of what you know. You cannot live in the world lotus-like. The lotus flower lives in the water, but it survives. Why? Because the water is there. It cannot survive if water is not there. Because the water is there, it can live as a lotus flower. So you can live as a lotus flower, a human being, if the world is there. If the world is not there, you cannot become a lotus flower. But this is the type of thinking that does not go to your head.
So we bring in knowledge from all sides and say, “Well, look, whoever you are, you are seeing a dream.” You see a dream and wake up, but you never think that this is also a dream. When you are in a dream, you say, “This is the world, this is where I live, this is my mother, father, brother and sister, Guruji is giving lectures, and I am there, real.” Then you wake up. What happens to your dream? That is your experience, so I talk about dreams. When you wake up, it means that you died in the dream and you are immediately born in the waking state—to see another dream. You are seeing a new dream. You don’t accept the old dream now, because it has gone. And now there is a new dream, a new birth has come. You think this dreamy body is a real dreamer. It was never there. I say this because something is there in you that you can figure it out. If the shakti [power] that is uninvolved appears in the intellect, then it can understand. When it will be there, then you can apply it on yourself, individually. Then you will know this daily. …
We are human beings and we have only been trained this much. When you have come over here, you are simply given an opportunity to listen to a thought which is otherwise to your own, to know, “That too is there.” When you get that thought and execute it and become detached, it will help you. Even while being in the ocean, the lotus flower will still be uninvolved. …
Prakash Anand: … There is the importance of the realization of That. It isn’t sufficient for me, as a member of the audience, to see those ducks and to say I know somehow that the ducks aren’t there…
Swamiji: When you come to know that Swamiji sees that there are no ducks, and if you ask me, “Do you really see an empty basket and no ducks?” then I’ll change my statement and say, “I see the empty basket and ducks sitting in it,” and you’ll be happy. Thus, you never get the point. … When I speak of a pure intellect, I mean Space. But I say a pure intellect so that you should be convinced that Swamiji sees Pure as well as the intellect, that Swamiji sees an empty basket as well as ducks. But I only see Pure. I cannot say Pure, because you have no reference for it. So half way, we get together. You were only seeing ducks. And when I said I see the empty basket as well as ducks, then you immediately said, “Oh yeah, I also began to see the empty basket.” The point is over. But I know that at that time you are clinging on to your ducks. [Laughter]
Pure Free Forever I speak almost daily. Pure Free Forever You. When I say Pure, you do not mind it, because you have heard of Pure. You have also heard of Free. For you, Pure is Free is Forever. But whenever I say Pure Free Forever You [he snaps his fingers], you immediately change your view. You do not say You Pure Free Forever as I’m saying it. The moment I said “you,” you fell on your body. That’s what the intellect does. The intellect always says, “I am inside the human head.” And Guru’s view is that the human head is inside the intellect. This you don’t understand. Why? The mind is there, the intellect is there and its functioning is like that. Toes, fingers and eyes function like that. It’s their neetee, their rule, their destiny. It is the fixture of the ears that they will only hear. In the same way, the intellect will always decide that which the intellect has the power to decide. So the intellect will always decide that “I am the body,” and then “I am my name.”
You come to know, “What should I do that I should be free from this mechanism?” Many of you must be feeling, “Is there any way I can be free from this mechanism?” There is no way. Then you’ll say, “Be kind, you seem to be knowing a way.” Then I’ll say, “Look, you are a human figure, born as you are. You are just perfect. You don’t have to belittle yourself in any way. Now use this body, because you have the power. You are free.”
We are working to expose to you the prakriti, or nature, which has created you like this. I am not against prakriti or maayaa, but I know what is what. Your nose is a nose, your eyes and ears are eyes and ears, your hunger and thirst are hunger and thirst, your mind is mind. But you must know that you are You. That’s all. I’m not taking anything away from you. Rather, when you hear me, I’m convinced that you want to hear the right thing from me, which you know but you have not believed in: You are that who is Pure Free Forever. It has never committed any mistake. It has never become deep sleep. It has never become a dream. It has never become the waking state. It has never become thinking. It has never become a profession. It has never become male. It has never become female. You is so pure. … Everything is perfect. But that which is deluding you is also there, which you made. If your making is wrong, I want you to unmake it. You should unmake your ahankaar [identified I-sense]—which has never been there yet you have made it to be there. …Knowledge is the centre, the space, like the hub of a wheel, and all the radii are tagged to it. It’s one wheel, and an ant is walking on it, going round and round and round. It wants to get out of the wheel. But where will it go? It’s a wheel. So we also give the example of a wheel, the wheel of birth and death: birth and immediately death; death; birth; birth and death and birth. You need this birth and death wheel to be broken, you want it to be broken. And I say it can be. You ask, How? I say, Try. It’s not only a wheel. You have the power to move from the wheel towards the hub. Keep coming, keep coming. And get into the hole. You are out of it. So we are leading your attention from the wheel to the hole. The whole is Guru. If you are united with Guru [he snaps his fingers], you are free. …
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