Bring In What You Want To Know
… When you hear the word maya and try to conceive of its meaning, this is your own realm of understanding. When you hear a new word, you are supposed to ask, “Why does one use the word maya?” Since you might misunderstand maya, we translate it as “illusory mind,” or “mind-illusion.” But you don’t think the mind is an illusion. How to reach your understanding so that you should be able to know the mind is not that which you think? You think the mind is real, the mind is the human being, the mind is the life of a human being—that without the mind, a human being is sort of mad and there is no life for him. This shows that any thinking or knowing power is real for you, or for the mind. It has been examined that as long as your mind is of your concept—or that it is real—then you will be suffering. You cannot avoid it.
When you came to see me, and I came to know the problem of a human being, you are one among them. When I talk about a human being, it means I am talking about the human mind. The human mind is not life for you, nor is it the body for you. You have some understanding. To whom do you attribute this understanding? To your mind. You have learned everything in your life, and you can easily identify that as a child, you had no learning. As a child, you began to learn. In what category will you put this learning other than the mind? And if your concept of the mind is accepted, then you are not going to be free from the mind’s idea of death, destruction, uneasiness, suffering and all that.
When you don’t understand this, or what the problem of a human being is, then we say the problem is non-understanding. So non-understanding is maya. Then, when the word maya is used in relation to the ego-intellect-mind, you will be confused, thinking that “Swamiji said that non-understanding is maya.” But our ego-intellect-mind is understanding, so how can it be said that the mind is maya?” That’s why question-and-answer, or concern and the answer to it, is a must. Otherwise, you are sleeping, or you are wakeful and doing your work the way you were taught. Then you will never grow into that which you want to grow into. … If you have understood this, why would you accept everything that the mind, including the senses, says? Then you will have a kind of protective power which will always protect you, because you will know that the field in which action takes place is the ego-intellect-mind and senses.
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People who come over here have come to hear something, so I speak and you hear, and that’s enough for you. It’s also enough for me—because when it’s enough for you, it’s enough for me. Thus, there is no way to go upward, or to increase or enhance more than what the mind is. So I cannot take anybody’s name, because you get identified, you get touched, you feel bad and blame me—maybe not blame me, but at least you feel, “There is something wrong which I am, and you started describing it.”
Samaadhi Shakti: … Yesterday you were saying that you always have to be so careful with us to bring up anything, because something will be there to block the understanding. So I was thinking I would like to offer.
Swamiji: When you would like to offer, you forgot that you are not sitting in my living room; you are sitting in front of these people, so whatever you will offer, I’ll not accept. I will accept that which all the persons here are, so I’ll not tell you the truth. You are offering in order to know the truth, and I’m expected to tell you the truth. But if I tell you the truth, they all get upset, or many of them do; they conclude something, as if the satsang is going to be about them. And I’m talking to you. That’s where when you offer to me, then you became free from your mind: that’s the offering. Then you have renounced the previous kind of awareness, the rigid awareness of your mind that whatever the mind says is true. The mind sometimes says something that appears to be necessary for you to execute, and sometimes it appears not necessary to execute. But you have become so convinced that whatever the mind says you have to execute. In order to make you hear something, I start picking up examples from whatever I have heard, read or seen. But that doesn’t go to your head, because I have not seen you and known what your difficulty is.
So sometimes when you talk to me exclusively, then you have to bring in what you want to know after offering everything to me. Suppose you have offered and say, “I have offered myself to you.” Offering is not a kind of flower, fruit, cloth or any kind of food. You have offered so that I should say something to you. Right? So I say, “Well, that which your mind, person or being says—that this body is going to die—this is correct. But I say that my Space says, ‘You are that who does not die.’” How will you relate to this? That is where a man’s position is. I say you are That—whom you call you, a body. I say, “No, this is not rightly understood. You are not your nails, knees, ears or hair.” I want to approach you and see whether you know you are your toes or not. But you are not retorting, working or exerting that, “How is it I’m not my nails or knees? You are your nails and knees.” Then you will not understand Pure Free Forever You. Because for you, you are a person; maybe not a name, but a person who is visible to everyone and visible to your eyes. And I say that if you remain attached to this person, saying this is who you are, then one day when the body will die, you will be deluded. You say, “So what? The body dies.” Therefore, from where should we start?
Samaadhi Shakti: Swamiji, I don’t want to remain attached to this person.
Swamiji: Then you have come to realize that you are not attached—it’s not that you don’t want to get attached. But I have exposed or cleared that you are attached to the body, and you have understood, “Whatever Swamiji is saying seems to be right. I don’t want to get attached.” This means that you became detached. It’s not that you will remain attached and you don’t want to get attached, or something like that. It is over: you are not the mental, illusory concept or idea that this body is permanent. Whereas others say that the body is permanent and treat you in order to make it permanent; anytime your body is exposed to disease or sickness, they want to bring it back and call it permanent.
So the problem remains intact in the company of those who think that the body is permanent and who convince you that you are also permanent body wise. And I’m saying, “No, that is not correct. The body will change, the body has changed, and the body is changing.” But you still think, “I am permanent.” Why? If you think you are the body, the body is not permanent. So if you know, “I am permanent,” then you are knowing the same which I say, that you are permanent. That is where human appearance can be counted upon, can be explained. This we start.
But some of you, any of you, must know what I should say which you like. You must be knowing this. If I have come here, you have some awareness that “He knows something extra which I do not know.” So I have to express that extra. That extra is the Space which is not the mind. This will confuse you, so I’ll not say it. I’ll say, “You have a mind and I have a mind. But you have a mind that falls easily, like a little ball. My mind is like a rock, it falls a little later.” Then you say, “Yes, at least I should reach there.”
Some of your ideas are like that. But when I say the mind does not exist, you are expected to respond, “How do you say that the mind does not exist? Because en bloc I feel that the mind exists.” Then, after using your intelligence, I have to prove it to you—because I cannot approach you without using your intelligence. I have to use your intelligence: you will never accept my intelligence. In this way we are passing the time, going slowly and slowly to That. When you will be totally old, you will come to know, “Oh, my whole life I was thinking that life is like that, I am like that, my eyes, stomach, senses and being are like that. But they don’t work.” Why can’t you understand now that they should be working and you can understand what he says.
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The Self is from where the dream appears. You have understood this. But if the dream appears from the Self, why does the dream become a dream?
Mahabir: That’s what happens.
Swamiji: If you say, “That’s what happens,” it is the intellect speaking. So the intellect comes in your way, it doesn’t allow you to know the Self, because the intellect of the dream will treat every intellectual scene to be true. It is exactly the same in the waking state. If the intellect is not, in deep sleep, at that time a person will not say anything, whether he is male or female. Why? The intellect is not there. So the moment the intellect arises, it is either in the waking or the dream state. But I say both of them do not exist—other than the Self. So in my awareness, the Self alone is. But in your awareness, the Self alone is the flowers, which are true for you; the Self alone is Don, so Don is true. I’m saying that the Self alone is—Don and the flowers are not included. But your intellect’s understanding will conclude this. Having known it, I have to talk to you as you are, with your power of intellect, and use the same intellect in such a way that you may be confused about your intellectual understanding. …
Mahabir: … I feel that the identification with feeling an effect of something should not be there.
Swamiji: You have to know the meaning of identification. You get identified because you never accept That. That is identification. If you accept That, then it is not going to become your mind, intellect or senses. That will always know That. It will not say, “There is a mind, so it is That; there are senses, so they are That.” No! For That, there is no mind, no senses, no body, no world. That is That. But when it has not been That, then you say, “That is there and this is also there.” So then I say, “Yes, yes, this is affected, but That is not affected.”
Mahabir: So when I say I know that I’m that which was there before I came into the waking state, I’m actually still making a form of it.
Swamiji: You are making a form because it has not been form. It has no cause. It has no effect. At the most we can say it is free. Freedom has nothing to do with going up and down or getting affected. You understand this. When you understand it, then I say that you have the power to know that you are free. After freedom, you cannot say the sky has become the air so the sky is suffering and agitated, that it has itching because of air. The sky is sky. In the same way, when the sky becomes air and in the air it becomes sun-heat, you will say, “Well, if the sky becomes heat, then the sky is affected by heat.” That is the problem. So you have to sort out what is it is in the intellect which says, “The sky has become heat, therefore the sky should suffer because of the heat.”
Mahabir: That can be sorted out by the intellect?
Swamiji: No. That can be sorted out by my intellect. [Laughter and applause] …
We can all close our eyes and meditate for a while. Many times I speak just to harmonize with your state of awareness. When that arises, many people are ready to meditate, such as at this time, and many people must also be there to listen. But I came to know with my Aantar Vaahak, or Inner Being—which is your Inner Being too—that at this time, at this stage, your Inner Being is such that it wants to be quiet.
During this period, suppose somebody’s body needs to go to the bathroom, he should make himself feel free. I am saying, “Now, let us meditate,” because I know that I’m one with you. So when I felt that the need at this time is to close the eyes and be in that Space, I concluded that in majority you must also be in the same state. In this way, we have grown together up to this time. As and when you are not at that level, there I come out to be with your level. So when you write a letter to me and have a concern, it is not that I’ll tell you my level. I’ll come out on your level, and then I’ll understand. I’ll not understand what you are dreaming; but when I’ll come out on the level of your dream, then I’ll understand what you are dreaming. This is where we come to realize once and for all that we are in fact one—one Pure Existence, one Free Existence, one Ever-present Existence. …
That Space is my introduction. But to you, on your level, I am a person who is talking. Here, when you are in silence with your mouth and lips, with silence in your eyes, and perhaps with silence in your mind, then who appears? Only Being. That Being is ever-present Knower. When I’m talking from the Knower, you are reaching that Knower. Then the between-knower of the mind is not considered to be there. That’s why you are growing into Knowingness. I’ll be quiet for ten minutes. …
This Space has no name and form. I continue filling you with this information. But it is from your side which kind of name and form you give it. When you want to know, then I say something about it. If you can get it, you will find that this Space is purifying your mental awareness, which is illusory awareness. So this is Pure Awareness and the mind is illusory awareness; but they are both Awareness. Suppose there are sunshine and shade. Both are the same: one is brighter and one is less bright. So a human being is spoken to, saying, “Your mind, body, intellect and senses have a gross form of understanding, and that which is pure intellect has a finer form of understanding.” This goes on.
Human life, as it is, is always considered to be That. So we do not say, “Human life does not exist, you do not exist, the world does not exist” and all that. Because we have to remain alive in the daytime and night-time. Yet we have to copy that person who is wealthy enough to have this free Space, because then you do not need so many things, ideas, dependences and all that. This Space is not name and not form. Now when this is no name and no form, you can easily understand that any form can be mutilated or cut, any form can be burnt or blown, but this is formless and nameless.
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The whole world with sentient objects is nothing but Existence. So when I say that you exist, I mean you-Existence. Unless you reach the same, you will always be in a different region of your mind, in a different country. … Each person is not a man, he is a country. He is not a man, he is language. There are different spaces. There are billions of people. Talk to any country, to any man, you will find out that man. Speak to a second man, a second country; if you go there, you will find that. But when you come to me, since I’m no country, whenever I talk you immediately know that you are the same. To that I say, “You are That. I am Me. You are Me.” Me is itself a higher country, or Param (Supreme) Space. It’s called Param Pad (position) Param Dhaam (abode), Param Being, Param Lok (dimension) And it’s possible for you, because you are from Param Lok. Each one is from Param Lok, but he’s standing on his legs in this lok. This becomes the lok for him. So each country is a different lok. We are taught to have oneness with each other, therefore we respect each other. We don’t have any division, therefore we have no hatred. When no hatred is there, it must be oneness. When you reach the oneness country, the oneness space, then you’ll know Oneness. … When you’re in satsang, you appear to know all that which I say. When you’re not in satsang, then you are again tadaatma (turned into that)—you know all that which they say. Whenever you are in a different space, a different country, then the first country is gone. So what is your first country? Space.
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You have often heard me saying that water becomes an iceberg. For you, it is very routine that water becomes an iceberg. What is in it? You know it when you have vichaar (inquiry), which we use daily—Aatma vichaar. That’s why you’re getting the Aatma, or the Space. So now you see an iceberg; and you see ocean water. The iceberg has nothing to do with knowledge, and water has nothing to do with knowledge. But I’m talking to a human being, and a human being is made such that we all have knowledge that it is water—but limited knowledge. We do not know what water is unless we have vichaar, or we analyze and make it hot, extremely hot; then water is gone. Until then, water is. So you come to know that “I am a human being who knows with the senses that water is.” But how does water get frozen and say, “I am an iceberg,” or become an iceberg—even for you?
You will say, “Because freezing power has been applied.” That freezing power is called the mind. That freezing power is the intellect. That freezing power is the ego. You are Space, but you became an iceberg, or a bubble of a human being, a human lad or lass. You came to know now that “There is some power which makes me a lad.” If the lad is dissolved, it will become that Space.
Vritti means the intellect: the intellect sees, and then there is a vritti such as, “This is a rose.” One vritti. Then, “This is another flower, a lotus.” How did you come to know this is a rose and this is a lotus? The buddhi, the intellect. That is where man is. A man is dependent on the intellect, because the intellect discriminates between a small flower, a big flower and a bunch of flowers, between Aakaash and Bruce. The Space has frozen in the intellect, so it is a flower; it has frozen the Space, so it is Mary; it has frozen the Space, so it is Dikpal. The intellect. So sometimes I say, “Look, you have to analyze your intellect. You’ll find that in deep sleep you are not the intellect. There, duality doesn’t work.” …
The intellect does not believe in anything that others say, because the intellect only believes in what you think that you are. So firstly we establish, “Do you have the ability, or more power, to change this view?” You say, “No, I can’t.” Then I say, “Let me try.” [Laughter] And I try daily. When you are changed completely and become the Space, you are quiet, you don’t argue. …
Dikpal: Swamiji, when you described the lotus and the rose, you said it is the intellect knowing this. Then it seemed like the problem was that, because of this function, the space of awareness of the Self gets frozen into identification with the intellect. So when you said later that the problem is that you pick up the intellect, it sounded like it’s not a problem that you pick it up, but that somehow you pick up the sense of frozenness at the same time. Because you said, “A lotus and a rose,” but you didn’t become frozen.
Swamiji: No, I became. Without being frozen, how can I say that this is a small flower and this a big one?
Dikpal: So if you became frozen…
Swamiji: Then everybody became frozen. What is wrong with it?
Dikpal: Well I thought that when you used the word “frozen,” you were talking about…
Swamiji: You thought with your intellect and imagined. You made a meaning, you used your intellect and then conceived that perhaps I am not frozen. Right? So why did you find out that I am not frozen when I am frozen?
Dikpal: Because I have an idea that you are never frozen.
Swamiji: That idea is called bhraanti, illusion.
Dikpal: I’m having trouble accepting that! [Swamiji laughs].
Gayatri: … When you said that you also became frozen, and I also think you are not frozen, is it because you are just showing us how this intellect becomes frozen?
Swamiji: Yes, yes. I am showing that I am frozen just to show you. But Dikpal is advanced, he has gone into Aantar Vaahak in my Being, who is not frozen. So he is also not frozen. But he is wondering, “Why does it happen that there is a small rose and a big rose? The intellect came again. So I reached there, where your Aantar Vaahak, your Inner Being, is. Your Inner Being is your first body, which has not become bhautik (material), which has not become frozen. I reach there and then I say, “You are Pure Free Forever.” But when I reached your intellect, then I immediately said to Dikpal, “No, no. Why did you imagine that I’m not frozen?” He could not answer, because he has reached that Space in me where I’m not frozen. He has analyzed again and again in various situations, “Why is it that I become frozen but he is not frozen?” At that time, he himself is not frozen. Then he knows, “Swamiji is not frozen.” But when he is frozen, then it’s the different space of an iceberg that has come. All of you when you are not frozen come to know, “Guruji and I seem to be one—at least he knows he is one with me.” This is called not freezing. But when you wake up, each person wakes up as an individual, frozen person with the waking state and says, “My waking state is alright, and I’ll not listen to anybody unless he harmonizes with my intellect.”
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I understand that you are the Space, and I allow you the way your intellect functions. We know the human predicament, and at the same time your original Space. So when you are here, you are not here for me or for you—not for individuals. You are Oneness. So Oneness is collectively sitting over here, and on Oneness everybody is a drawing on a kind of canvas. The drawings cannot be free of the canvas, and the canvas cannot be separate from the drawings. It is one. In this way, you come to know what Swamiji is talking. Swamiji is saying that if you are in any kind of relation, very good. The way that you feel happy and easy, do it. But ultimately, if you are following your body-and-intellect consciousness and think it is going to give you the answer, it will not. But whenever your original Space comes, then you know, “I am one Pure Existence.”
… A person will be looked after because the Highest Being is always there. But because of relations, we do not know this. We think, “Only relations will help me.” So we help. … We are advanced now, not only psychologically but intellectually and spiritually also, so we know that we are the Space and that the Space has millions of heads. Thank you very much. God bless you. [Applause]
