Swami-ji: We are not bodies. We are always pure consciousness.
It takes time. It really takes time. It takes a lot of time to have that dheeraj. Dheeraj means
God. Dheeraj means Self.
God is what? Oneness. Now, human beings never see
God. How can I or you make them understand God? They never see Oneness.
How can you make them know Oneness?
What am I saying? I'm saying that it is most difficult.
And if you have no time, if you are engaged at McGill University doing
your Ph.D., for a year or so, you dont know anybody except your room
and your books and some teacher who comes now and then, once in a week
or once in a blue moon, and thats it.
This is the world of mind in which we are living.
You know the drama. And thats why you are blessed.
But when you feel, feel means bhakti.
When you know, know means gyaan. When you do, it means
action. These are three subtlest forms of happening which permeate all.
Action permeates the whole world. Knowledge permeates
the whole action field and the world. And blissl. Sat-chit-aanand (existence,
consciousness, bliss).
What a great beauty that our elders have spoken about
the ultimate reality! For me, sat-chit-aanand makes the whole world!
But now, you cannot work it even in your kitchen.
Know the Source and immediately you are one with it
So this world becomes difficult due to lack of awarenesslack of
awareness of the Source. When you came to know the Source, immediately
you are one with it and your heart is full, because Source and heart are
one love.
Our human movie is when we become in love.
We do not know because knowledge is not there. Love
is devoid of knowledge. And knowledge is devoid of love.
Thats why there is a difficulty for Abhaya.
She asks, "What kind bhakti (devotion) is it where knowledge
has to be included?"
I say, "No. Dont include knowledge in bhakti.
Remain bhaktas. A monkeys child clings on to mother. Bhakta." You
have seen that little child. Mother doesnt care. She just runs and
jumps. But that bhakta is clinging on to the bhakti devotion.
So knowledge should also be there.
So remember this: sat-chit-aanand is Guru.
And sat-chit-aanand has sprouted now.
Now, You Have Got It!
Sita: Id would like to say I love you all. Vikram sends
his love. And Im so happy Im back here again. And Guru-ji,
thank you. [Applause]
Swami-ji: The more you grow in that awareness, the better you
arehappier and freer.
If I had no patience, which means no tolerance, no
acceptance, it would be next to impossible that hundreds of people coming
to Kullu, to this country, would have remained for thirty years, growing
and meditating. And that is God-consciousness.
It should have been known long before that God-consciousness
has come on earth. But it cannot be known in a day or two because it is
hidden. The light says, "Unless sun appears, human eyes or the eyes
of animals dont know where the light is." So when chaytan (pure
consciousness) has not sprouted in your intellect, you will always be in
a state of seeking it.
We did well!
We did well. We sought for so many years. And now I feel that you have
got it. I am happy that you have really got to know it, that one reality.
The rest of it is seeing the forms, calling them separate, welcoming them,
giving departure. Its fun. Its a joy to welcome someone, your
own Self. You are being welcomed by your Self. And when you give departure,
it is the same.
If we go anywhere and do not have the sense that somebody
else belongs to me, then its not a good taste. If you are coming
from somewhere, with all the fatigue and exhaustion of travel, and you
end up over here and nobody welcomes you, nobody says 'hello' or 'hi,'
you just say, "Thats the material thought that created, this."
If that rigid material thought does not remain, you
become finer thought.
You have some knowledge: in every being there is a
Knower. If I put it in a better way, you might understand better: its
not only Knower, its a lover. Lover and Knower are one reality. If,
in a human being, lover is devoid of knowledge, that man is a fool, a Las
Vegas man. If Knower is without love, he is a scientist. [Laughter]
Sat and chit: when both are there, sat and chit,
then aanand is the reality, the indivisibility.
And you have heard it and remembered it.
As intelligent persons we talk, only less. But whenever
you come, we feel inspired, everybody feels great.
Wherever the best is, that is God. Krishna says, "Of
all the best he is the best."
Wherever you go, remember Me
Wherever you go, remember Me. But dont put Me on a
photograph, or on a shirt, like the Chicago Bulls. [Laughter] That is not
Me!
'Me' alone is. And thats called Guru consciousness.
It will be such a nice thing, such a beauty, wherever you go to know Me. So
when Guru says, "You are Me," it is that Oneness. It is not dinner.
It is not partisan. It is not an 'ism.' It is not affairs.
People see you as a body and chide you. They say, "He
is a Jew, he is not a Christian." Christian says, "You are not
as good as a Hindu because Christian is one who bleeds."
A sanatani, a man of oneness, says that whatever
you think, that will happen. If you can produce the nectar, nectar will
come.
Life: thats called elixir. Elixir, immortality, amaram
hum madhuram hum. Whoever has drunk the elixir of amaram hum madhuram
hum will forever shine and forever remain healthy, happy, joyful,
and in Oneness. Their brain will appear most wonderful and good. And
from tomorrow you are going to see each other as most beautiful. And
any time you have come in your mind, you just change it. Thats
all.
The day before yesterday, Rita and Poornima and Pragati
were walking along with me at 1:30 a.m. in the night. They think something
is out there. And this is what we dont understand. You are all 'Me.'
Time and space has got nothing to do with 'Me.' 'Me' is beyond. Beyond
mind, that is 'Me.' There, there is no duality. There is all that which
is excellent.
When does your ego come?
Mary (Meera): Thanks Swami-ji. To Sita and Veer, its always
really great to see you. I really liked Sitas question the other day
when she asked, "What should one do when one sees that the ego has come?
You know it has come, but now what to do about it?" And Swami-ji said
that once you know that the I has arisen, this knowledge actually
belongs to the Self. So the Self is there knowing and in the awareness of the
Self. Then it is a matter of having the discrimination that its not the I, that
Self is the awareness.
Swami-ji: Because of the object, you come to know the ego. Why? The
moment knowledge begins to take place, it sees itself as other, which means
'ego,' and calls itself 'subject.' The duality, dichotomy, has taken place.
Maybe it is subtle, but all of you know it.
In deep sleep there is no otherness. But in the waking
state, the consciousness pure says I. It will say I only
when it knows I. Its knowing is objective. Subject and object.
So whenever subject-object takes place, treat it: duality came, ego came, and
man arose.
If you are smart enough, you have Gurus words to
remember. He says there may be two at that time, but you are conscious, so
keep knowing one. The subject, object, subject, object, subject, object, subject.
Munishwar is not here today but I tell him most often like that.
So now, how great an investigative or inquiring spirit
you will have when you know that, the moment consciousness arises, duality
is going to flood you! You are a human: duality. It is that strong awareness
of the I, the ego, that it will always be ego. So to say things
like, "Drop your ego," or, "You are into ego," or " Your
ego is heavy," or "Your ego is elephant," or "Your ego
is becoming
," is not good.
Don't think about ego, just do!
Dont say 'ego!' Say, "Well look, it arose!" Since it arose,
at one time it was not. So you should not curb it. You should not kill it.
You should not beat it. You should not talk about ego. Dont think about
it! You just do!
Suppose a glass is there: If I think whether I should
or I should not drink, Ill remain a hundred years. [He drinks a glass
of water] Do it! Those people, Aqua Pure (a bottled water company), have said
on the television that 75 per cent of the body is water. Why should we not
drink it? But you dont drink because ego arises, and you say, "Should
I drink, should I not drink, should I . . ." You just take the glass
and thermos and fill it like this . . . [He pours and drinks another glass
of water] Dont think! [He drinks it.] Gone! [Laughter]
Yes. You say something.
Mary: Swami-ji, when you just showed us how we can get out of the
field of drinking or not drinking, you just drink the tea, could that apply
also to writing?
Swami-ji: It was not tea, it was water. Tea I cannot drink so fast.
Mary: Oh, yes. Water. Sorry. Water. Lately Ive been trying to
write something. But Im having problems. I get stuck after a few lines.
Is it the same?
Swami-ji: Its just the samethe same because you are into
ego. Marys ego: who does not know it? [Laughter] The highest ego in the
pyramid! [Laughter] Everybody knows it. Shes the only poojari.
[More laughter: Swami-ji is referring here to regular pooja sessions
which Mary conducts.]
All the persons there have to learn all those things which
she has learned, and have the rhythm. [He sings] Amaram madhuram amaram.
Just play it in any wayamaram madhuram you like to! Bam,
bam, bam , bam, bam and tan, tan, tan! Its just an atmosphere. [Laughter]
And pay attention over there that all the sound is getting absorbed." But
Mary, her ego is so strong. Even with pooja it is not dissolved. [Laughter]
Mary: Swami-ji?
Swami-ji: Yes, dear?
Mary: It seems that when the ganthas [pooja music and
chanting] are done in rhythm, it creates a different atmosphere than when its
all uneven.
Swami-ji: No. 'Different' is in your mind.
Mary: Oh! [Laughter]
Swami-ji: Why is it that it creates a different atmosphere? I also
hear, and I hear non-rhythmic sounds, and its alright. [A car honked
on the road below.] The cars are going. Are they rhythmic? [Laughter] Cars
and hooters are not rhythmic. They say that if something is rhythmic, that
is a great thing. Even in pop musicthose dancers, they also began to
play rhythmically. They move their hands
[He imitates; much laughter.]
Egolessness is the only reality
Mary: So its just a concept that sattwa is created
Swami-ji: Yes. Egolessness is the only reality. Egolessness means
you dont divide. Especially, you dont talk about it. I dont
go ever there [to the pooja sessions] so that all the others should
not be tempted to come. Otherwise they will be flooded.
I would go because I like it. But I do not go because
once I went and stood at the door. She was doing pooja to Guru-jiher
Guru-ji. And when I stood at the door and closed the eyes, she directed everybody
with their candles, with their lamps, to me. [Mary laughed] By chance I opened
the eyes, thinking that they must be doing good. They were doing to me! She
knows that she should not be into ego by herself so I should also join.
Only to remove egothats why pooja has
been recommended. Just know this much, that egolessness is the Self. And Self
with knowledge of duality is definitely a human being. Call him ego-ridden,
call him intellectual, call him mental, give him any name, but thats
the basic thing that he is.
If you are egoless, automatically discrimination will
come up. You will not have any such difference. Ill give you an example
of egolessnessRalph. [Ralph is a dog who is often at the Satsang sessions.]
See? I am speaking, you are speaking, you are there, and he is there. And he
is just there. Why? A mind that is dualistic, he hasnt got. This is one
reason why this dog comes here. His Knower knows that he gets into samaadhi,
egoless state, even in the dog form. Many of you are in the same state. [Uproarious
laughter]
So that is the result of pooja. Thats why we love you.
Mary: Swami-ji, in pooja everyone likes to express bhakti and
freedom. Thats the pooja.
Swami-ji: That's right. And to those bhakti comes because in pooja headlessness
comes. Intelligent persons cannot do pooja; to them it is not recommended.
All of you are coming from the quality and class of intelligence. I have recommended,
for intelligent persons, mandala. Nobody questioned up to this time
why mandala. [Laughter]
Yes, yes. Say something more.
Mary: So Swami-ji, how can I recognize within myself when my ego has
come up?
Swami-ji: Whenever you feel that you are bigger, ego has come. Ralph
is therehe does not know that he is bigger: that is egolessness. So whenever
you say that somebody has belittled you, somebody has snatched your things,
somebody has not obeyed you, somebody has not done that which you wanted, somebody
has not come to your place though he or she was invited, somebody is not looking
at you, somebody is not answering your questionsall that is included
in your ego.
When does your ego come?
Mary: When does my ego come? I guess if I think a thing should be
done a certain way, and then I say to myself, "Oh, its not being
done in a right way," then I think I get a bit uptight. [Laughter]
Swami-ji: Many people are called very tolerant and great people and
all that. Inside, they know that they are all wrong. But outside . . . [he
smiles sweetly; everyone laughs.]
So that is not the thing. Inside should not be there.
I know Space, thats all. And so when I say Space
is free and pure, you are supposed to use your head with this Space: the ether
which is free and pure. Air blows in it but air does not touch it. Smell goes
in it, aakaash is not touched. Why is it like that? Because it is free
and pure. The moment your freedom and purity is disturbed, you are into your
ego. Thats all.
You understood?
Mary: Yes. Thanks
Swami-ji: You can check it, judge it, and act freely which means,
do your pooja, do your work, invite people and all that.
Inside, only you have to work, not anybody else. Nobody
else can work for you. Its that exclusive. Therefore you can tell Guru-ji
all that which happened and did not happen. He will understand it and where
you are at, and he will inspire you into something whereby you will remain
egoless.
Mary: Thank you, Swami-ji.
Swami-ji: Thank you very much.
Just Remain Aware
Sita: Swami-ji? You said when somebody says something that you dont
like, and you dont want to come into duality or ego, you remain in the
Self. And the highest form of discrimination is there. Now then, you are in
discriminatory stage. So how does one act in the discriminatory stage? We usually
act in duality.
Swami-ji: Why is it understood that you have to act?
Sita: Just remain in the awareness?
Swami-ji: Just you remain aware. Thats all. Discrimination is
that. If you act and somebody will judge you, totally misinterpreting you,
then he will start fighting. Just with words! Words create the problem. Words
should be managed in such a way that it is a learning.
So if discrimination and awareness says, "This man
has not understood my point, and he is repeating again, again, to convince
me of what I should know," you should manage the discrimination and the
reality.
But now the 'discrimination' word came in the light of
indiscrimination with othersagyaan (ignorance). So if you are gyaan and
I have gyaan, it will be the nicest company because I will never misunderstand
you.
At that time you have not to act.
Once you come to know that there is always somebody around
you who is agyaani, you find out among those agyaanis if they
have potentiality and power to listen to you, the gyaan (knowledge).
For becoming gyaani, they all are your friends. They are gyaanis,
not agyaanis. They are your children. And so you should not strike your
head against the wall. Thats agyaan. So at that time it is not
necessary that you have to act. Its not that you are withdrawing. You
just dont have to act. Thats it.
Thank you.
Yes, Veer, come. I like them because they have initiative.
Veer: Everybody has an ego.
Swami-ji: Yes.
Veer: And when a person incites you, obviously your ego is going to
play up.
Swami-ji: Yes.
Veer: Now, you can accept the fact that a person is not as evolved
as you are, right? I mean, they do not know. I mean, they cant take insults
themselves yet they insult others. So how do you take this? I say, "OK,
he doesnt know what he is saying." But then I know Im right
by keeping quiet. So in one way thats increasing my ego by saying to
myself that Im a higher being than he is. [Laughter]
Swami-ji: Its not a higher being. No, it is not. Knowing the
reality is not that you are a higher being.
The being who is higherhe will not be feeling good
because he feels higher. He knows that he is! Fire will know fire; water will
know water; light will know light; darkness will know darkness. So if light
knows that 'I am light,' it does not make the darkness small and then become
happy.
There are certain truths, they will remain truth. There
are people who do not know. And there are people who want you to arouse the
same kind of enmity or irritation from within you. This should be avoided.
Veer: Yes. I avoid the irritation. But you know, in the back of my
mind is running: "You know, this guy is a fool; he doesnt know what
he is saying."
Swami-ji: No, this is not the point. He is not a fool, because you
have already learned that he could not talk if God was not there within him,
if Self was not within him. And Self is never a fool. Therefore, because of
the Self, he is talking. It is his mind that has not learned that language.
In English, I many times talk with incorrect pronunciation.
But these people dont mind. They dont say I am a fool. Why? Because
they know at least he talks in English. I could talk to them in Hindi. Theyd
be in an awkward position. So they are happy that even if some pronunciation
is not alright, he is alright. So in this way, never treat anybody as a fool.
You can treat as ignorant someone who does not know Hindi, or somebody else
who does not know French. You can say they are ignorant of the language. But
the man himself is not ignorant. He is not stupid.
This is what the fear for a person is: that people are
going to call him stupid, judge him as stupid and then interact with him knowing
that he is stupid. Your work will be that you will not call the person stupid.
Its only the situation that he does not know. So he is not stupid, he
just does not know.
You understood my point? Not yet? Ill say it in
another way.
Veer: So he does not know what he is saying.
Swami-ji: Yes. He does not know what he is saying. And you meet such
people at every step.
Veer: So you are just supposed to ignore them.
Swami-ji: Hanh! (Yes.). You just do your things. Or whatever
you want to say to him, you say.
Veer: But wont it be at the back of the mind, you know: "This
guy said this to me?"
Swami-ji: No. This is one reason we teach our children, or our friends.
They are not stupid because they are rich or they are poor or any of that.
This work, in which everybody is joined, including myself, is an infinite wealth
of knowledge. That is samtaa, is purity, is freedom, which people have
recognized in youthat is that you dont have that ego to say that "I
am high; they are stupid."
Do you have that?
Veer: No. Well, I mean, it could happen.
Swami-ji: No, no, it will not happen. If it has not happened, it will
not happen. This is what I said to Mary. When you are egoless, you are egoless.
Do pooja, do anything! Fire is fire. When you are egoless, you are egoless.
Dont be afraid of anything. You will never become ego.
I am the example of it. I was eight or nine years old and became aware. Something
very extraordinary happened. I came to know. I never told anything to anybody.
But I never treated anybody less or more except if I was getting all the time
in my ears wrong things, wrong concepts, wrong ideas.
'Wrong' I call that which is not virtually virtuous and
does not make me near the Self. Anything that will not take you near the Self,
near the highest, treat it that that is bad company, bad work, or bad anything.
If your status of understanding becomes low and you begin
to like things and forms in which you get involved, and you lose your nearness
which you have now with your Self, all that will the result of bad company,
bad persons. But you will not say to them that they are bad.
So this is what you have to see.
Check, always in your heart
And check always in your heart. People may put such words in you that make
you get angry. But at that time you have to see that anger should not come
because you are aware. These are just the channels. Through your ears, the
words will have some meaning. And they will arouse in you a sickness, a difficulty.
You must have seen, all of you, some persons talking in such a way that you
feel very bad, you feel very small.
Now if you are infinite, you should not feel small. But
they are powerful enough to make you feel small. Now that cleverness is stupidity.
[Laughter] So that you will see.
Another point?
Veer: I have another question. I forgot
I forgot the question.
Can you speak? Ill just think.
Swami-ji: It will come. It will come. See? He is so aware. He doesnt
say "I forgot, so Ill go." Thats what pleases me. He
is established in that space of freedom. For himIm analyzingIll
say that for him it is not that he is saying, "What will these people
say?" There is no duality in him. There is no these and me. He
doesnt care for that. Its not there. And he also does not have
this duality that Ill have a sense of minimizing him. No. He is aware.
What he is wanting to ask was there a couple of minutes
before, but now it is not there. Why? I began to talk, and his space of inquiry
is finished. So unless he remembers
Again it will come, then he will
ask. So he is asking about some people who interact with him and he gets incited
or excited or remains neutral.
You have come to know that you are vulnerable to the effects
of movies. All the moviesTitanic. What for Titanic? Now
its a Hindi Titanic: its coming. [Laughter] I was fed up
with the English even! [Laughter]
So this is a long study. And you will be enjoying it throughout.
And you will remember Me all the time. Situations will come where you will
not know what to do. At that time you just phone me or Dan. Ill let you
know.
This is the study, ongoing. But if you remain free, you
will be able to ask your things.
Yes. You must have remembered it.
Veer: Yes. I just remembered it. Is there a difference between the
Knower and the conscience?
Swami-ji: Conscience? Yes. Conscience is that which we have learned:
it became my conscience. Knower was always there. A person does not have conscience
until it is made. So Knower is free, but this conscience is made out of consciousness.
And then you say, "Well, my conscience feels that
to fry these birds is not right." But there are some people who do fry
them, who recommend it.
So Knower is not conscience. Conscience is made. That
is why if you take the child to a butchers house, his conscience is so
made. He will take a cleaver: cut, cut, cut, cut. He will not mind.
But conscience is made generally for the purpose of doing
good. So it is often referred to the people, to the child: "You should
have consulted your conscience."
Veer: So the conscience could evolve.
Swami-ji: Yes. So then conscience could be just transcended, finished.
Knower will remain forever. In this way we know Knower. And then inner being
who is conscious being I should be remembering, "Knower
am I," and realizing, "The Knower am I in identification." That
is realization. The being which says. 'you, thou,' is not being trained to
say that "I am that Knower." It is trained only to know that 'I am
my name,' 'I am Phillippa,' 'I am Rekha,' 'I am this.'
This I will identify itself with the Knower
because Knower is free: its nature is free. And because of the Knower,
the world is moving. Then, at that time, you will be in tune with the Knower,
and worlds movements will not affect you.
Right?
Veer: Thanks Swami-ji.
Swami-ji: Thank you.
He is very deep. I remember when I was young enough, at
nine years or twelve years or so, I would lecture. I would give talks even
to people fifty, seventy, eighty years old. And for hours together. They were
so surprised. They liked me to invite them, and they came. And they liked to
invite me. So I got very pleased.
He came to know the meaning of conscience. And somebody
must have said that conscience is God. Many people say, "My conscience
didnt allow me
"
There was this interviewer in Vancouver, who was the chairman
of that Rotary Club or something like that. So I was on the television with
him and he said to me, "Swami, I heard that you are vegetarian."
I said, "Yes."
He said, "Are you against non-vegetarians?"
I said, "Well, why should I be against non-vegetarians?
They know what to do. Its not a question of my going against them or
not. They are not snatching my vegetarianism!"
So he said, "Suppose you are given meat at this time,
and you are non-vegetarian, will your conscience allow you to eat it?"
I said, "Well look, you are talking on a different
plane: you are saying, suppose. I am not theoretical. You talk
to me. And you know that I am vegetarian and I dont meat: I told you."
So then he said, "Oh yeah. You answered my question.
But then I want to ask you, do you eat eggs?"
He wanted to ask this, so I said, "No. I dont
eat eggs."
He said, "What is wrong with eggs? With meat, it's
just possible killing is involved."
I said, "Thats your idea. But egg, I dont
eat."
He said, "Must be that those eggs produce birdies
and then they are killed. You must be thinking like that."
I said, "No. I just dont eat them."
He said, "Why?"
I said, "I know, as yogi, from where the egg
is produced. Its not from beak! I am sensitive enough. Anything which
comes from such a place, Im not going to eat!" [Swami-ji chuckles.]
Somebodys conscience is made in such as way that
he can eat egg. He can eat that because he is told that its alright.
So conscience is a word which people interpret as inner reality.
But what is the truth? It is that Knower is unchanging.
It is not born, thus it is not dead. And Knower has got nothing to do with
what is happening between birth and death. But if a human being realizes and
comes to know the Knower on the level of his reflection of the Knowerthe
intellectthen his intellect and Knower are one.
At that time the discrimination is said to belong to the
Self. According to the Self , the body will happen. The bodys action
will happen. Talks will happen. Time and space, and everything will happen.
But there the man will remain free
|