Satsang  –   Volume 3, Number 13: July 8, 2000  
Previous Satsang Next Satsang

Source and Heart Are One Love

Swami-ji: We are not bodies. We are always pure consciousness.

It takes time. It really takes time. It takes a lot of time to have that dheeraj. Dheeraj means God. Dheeraj means Self.

    God is what? Oneness. Now, human beings never see God. How can I or you make them understand God? They never see Oneness. How can you make them know Oneness?

    What am I saying? I'm saying that it is most difficult. And if you have no time, if you are engaged at McGill University doing your Ph.D., for a year or so, you don’t know anybody except your room and your books and some teacher who comes now and then, once in a week or once in a blue moon, and that’s it.

    This is the world of mind in which we are living. You know the drama. And that’s why you are blessed.

    But when you feel, ‘feel’ means bhakti. When you know, ‘know’ means gyaan. When you do, it means action. These are three subtlest forms of happening which permeate all.

    Action permeates the whole world. Knowledge permeates the whole action field and the world. And blissl. Sat-chit-aanand (existence, consciousness, bliss).

    What a great beauty that our elders have spoken about the ultimate reality! For me, sat-chit-aanand makes the whole world!

    But now, you cannot work it even in your kitchen.

Know the Source and immediately you are one with it

So this world becomes difficult due to lack of awareness—lack of awareness of the Source. When you came to know the Source, immediately you are one with it and your heart is full, because Source and heart are one love. 

    Our human movie is when we become in love.     

    We do not know because knowledge is not there. Love is devoid of knowledge. And knowledge is devoid of love.

    That’s why there is a difficulty for Abhaya. She asks, "What kind bhakti (devotion) is it where knowledge has to be included?"

    I say, "No. Don’t include knowledge in bhakti. Remain bhaktas. A monkey’s child clings on to mother. Bhakta." You have seen that little child. Mother doesn’t care. She just runs and jumps. But that bhakta is clinging on to the bhakti devotion.

    So knowledge should also be there.

    So remember this: sat-chit-aanand is Guru. And sat-chit-aanand has sprouted now.

Now, You Have Got It!

Sita: I’d would like to say I love you all. Vikram sends his love. And I’m so happy I’m back here again. And Guru-ji, thank you. [Applause]

Swami-ji: The more you grow in that awareness, the better you are—happier and freer.

    If I had no patience, which means no tolerance, no acceptance, it would be next to impossible that hundreds of people coming to Kullu, to this country, would have remained for thirty years, growing and meditating. And that is God-consciousness.

    It should have been known long before that God-consciousness has come on earth. But it cannot be known in a day or two because it is hidden. The light says, "Unless sun appears, human eyes or the eyes of animals don’t know where the light is." So when chaytan (pure consciousness) has not sprouted in your intellect, you will always be in a state of seeking it.

We did well!

We did well. We sought for so many years. And now I feel that you have got it. I am happy that you have really got to know it, that one reality. The rest of it is seeing the forms, calling them separate, welcoming them, giving departure. It’s fun. It’s a joy to welcome someone, your own Self. You are being welcomed by your Self. And when you give departure, it is the same. 

    If we go anywhere and do not have the sense that somebody else belongs to me, then it’s not a good taste. If you are coming from somewhere, with all the fatigue and exhaustion of travel, and you end up over here and nobody welcomes you, nobody says 'hello' or 'hi,' you just say, "That’s the material thought that created, this."

    If that rigid material thought does not remain, you become finer thought.

    You have some knowledge: in every being there is a Knower. If I put it in a better way, you might understand better: it’s not only Knower, it’s a lover. Lover and Knower are one reality. If, in a human being, lover is devoid of knowledge, that man is a fool, a Las Vegas man. If Knower is without love, he is a scientist. [Laughter]

    Sat and chit: when both are there, sat and chit, then aanand is the reality, the indivisibility.

    And you have heard it and remembered it.

    As intelligent persons we talk, only less. But whenever you come, we feel inspired, everybody feels great.

    Wherever the best is, that is God. Krishna says, "Of all the best he is the best."

Wherever you go, remember Me

Wherever you go, remember Me. But don’t put ‘Me’ on a photograph, or on a shirt, like the Chicago Bulls. [Laughter] That is not Me!

    'Me' alone is. And that’s called Guru consciousness. It will be such a nice thing, such a beauty, wherever you go to know ‘Me.’ So when Guru says, "You are Me," it is that Oneness. It is not dinner. It is not partisan. It is not an 'ism.' It is not affairs.

    People see you as a body and chide you. They say, "He is a Jew, he is not a Christian." Christian says, "You are not as good as a Hindu because Christian is one who bleeds."

    A sanatani, a man of oneness, says that whatever you think, that will happen. If you can produce the nectar, nectar will come.

    Life: that’s called elixir. Elixir, immortality, amaram hum madhuram hum. Whoever has drunk the elixir of amaram hum madhuram hum will forever shine and forever remain healthy, happy, joyful, and in Oneness. Their brain will appear most wonderful and good. And from tomorrow you are going to see each other as most beautiful. And any time you have come in your mind, you just change it. That’s all.

    The day before yesterday, Rita and Poornima and Pragati were walking along with me at 1:30 a.m. in the night. They think something is out there. And this is what we don’t understand. You are all 'Me.' Time and space has got nothing to do with 'Me.' 'Me' is beyond. Beyond mind, that is 'Me.' There, there is no duality. There is all that which is excellent.

When does your ego come?

Mary (Meera): Thanks Swami-ji. To Sita and Veer, it’s always really great to see you. I really liked Sita’s question the other day when she asked, "What should one do when one sees that the ego has come? You know it has come, but now what to do about it?" And Swami-ji said that once you know that the ‘I’ has arisen, this knowledge actually belongs to the Self. So the Self is there knowing and in the awareness of the Self. Then it is a matter of having the discrimination that it’s not the ‘I,’ that Self is the awareness.

Swami-ji: Because of the object, you come to know the ego. Why? The moment knowledge begins to take place, it sees itself as other, which means 'ego,' and calls itself 'subject.' The duality, dichotomy, has taken place. Maybe it is subtle, but all of you know it.

    In deep sleep there is no otherness. But in the waking state, the consciousness pure says ‘I’. It will say ‘I’ only when it knows ‘I’. Its knowing is objective. Subject and object. So whenever subject-object takes place, treat it: duality came, ego came, and man arose.

    If you are smart enough, you have Guru’s words to remember. He says there may be two at that time, but you are conscious, so keep knowing one. The subject, object, subject, object, subject, object, subject. Munishwar is not here today but I tell him most often like that.

    So now, how great an investigative or inquiring spirit you will have when you know that, the moment consciousness arises, duality is going to flood you! You are a human: duality. It is that strong awareness of the ‘I,’ the ego, that it will always be ego. So to say things like, "Drop your ego," or, "You are into ego," or " Your ego is heavy," or "Your ego is elephant," or "Your ego is becoming…," is not good.

Don't think about ego, just do!

Don’t say 'ego!' Say, "Well look, it arose!" Since it arose, at one time it was not. So you should not curb it. You should not kill it. You should not beat it. You should not talk about ego. Don’t think about it! You just do!

    Suppose a glass is there: If I think whether I should or I should not drink, I’ll remain a hundred years. [He drinks a glass of water] Do it! Those people, Aqua Pure (a bottled water company), have said on the television that 75 per cent of the body is water. Why should we not drink it? But you don’t drink because ego arises, and you say, "Should I drink, should I not drink, should  I . . ." You just take the glass and thermos and fill it like this . . . [He pours and drinks another glass of water] Don’t think! [He drinks it.] Gone! [Laughter]

    Yes. You say something.

Mary: Swami-ji, when you just showed us how we can get out of the field of drinking or not drinking, you just drink the tea, could that apply also to writing?

Swami-ji: It was not tea, it was water. Tea I cannot drink so fast.

Mary: Oh, yes. Water. Sorry. Water. Lately I’ve been trying to write something. But I’m having problems. I get stuck after a few lines. Is it the same?

Swami-ji: It’s just the same—the same because you are into ego. Mary’s ego: who does not know it? [Laughter] The highest ego in the pyramid! [Laughter] Everybody knows it. She’s the only poojari.

    [More laughter: Swami-ji is referring here to regular pooja sessions which Mary conducts.] 

    All the persons there have to learn all those things which she has learned, and have the rhythm. [He sings] Amaram madhuram amaram. Just play it in any way—amaram madhuram —you like to! Bam, bam, bam , bam, bam and tan, tan, tan! It’s just an atmosphere. [Laughter] And pay attention over there that all the sound is getting absorbed." But Mary, her ego is so strong. Even with pooja it is not dissolved. [Laughter]

Mary: Swami-ji?

Swami-ji: Yes, dear?

Mary: It seems that when the ganthas [pooja music and chanting] are done in rhythm, it creates a different atmosphere than when its all uneven.

Swami-ji: No. 'Different' is in your mind.

Mary: Oh! [Laughter]

Swami-ji: Why is it that it creates a different atmosphere? I also hear, and I hear non-rhythmic sounds, and it’s alright. [A car honked on the road below.] The cars are going. Are they rhythmic? [Laughter] Cars and hooters are not rhythmic. They say that if something is rhythmic, that is a great thing. Even in pop music—those dancers, they also began to play rhythmically. They move their hands… [He imitates; much laughter.]

Egolessness is the only reality

Mary: So it’s just a concept that sattwa is created…

Swami-ji: Yes. Egolessness is the only reality. Egolessness means you don’t divide. Especially, you don’t talk about it. I don’t go ever there [to the pooja sessions] so that all the others should not be tempted to come. Otherwise they will be flooded.

    I would go because I like it. But I do not go because once I went and stood at the door. She was doing pooja to Guru-ji—her Guru-ji. And when I stood at the door and closed the eyes, she directed everybody with their candles, with their lamps, to me. [Mary laughed] By chance I opened the eyes, thinking that they must be doing good. They were doing to me! She knows that she should not be into ego by herself so I should also join.

    Only to remove ego—that’s why pooja has been recommended. Just know this much, that egolessness is the Self. And Self with knowledge of duality is definitely a human being. Call him ego-ridden, call him intellectual, call him mental, give him any name, but that’s the basic thing that he is.

    If you are egoless, automatically discrimination will come up. You will not have any such difference. I’ll give you an example of egolessness—Ralph. [Ralph is a dog who is often at the Satsang sessions.] See? I am speaking, you are speaking, you are there, and he is there. And he is just there. Why? A mind that is dualistic, he hasn’t got. This is one reason why this dog comes here. His Knower knows that he gets into samaadhi, egoless state, even in the dog form. Many of you are in the same state. [Uproarious laughter]

So that is the result of pooja. That’s why we love you.

Mary: Swami-ji, in pooja everyone likes to express bhakti and freedom. That’s the pooja.

Swami-ji: That's right. And to those bhakti comes because in pooja headlessness comes. Intelligent persons cannot do pooja; to them it is not recommended. All of you are coming from the quality and class of intelligence. I have recommended, for intelligent persons, mandala. Nobody questioned up to this time why mandala. [Laughter] 

    Yes, yes. Say something more.

Mary: So Swami-ji, how can I recognize within myself when my ego has come up?

Swami-ji: Whenever you feel that you are bigger, ego has come. Ralph is there—he does not know that he is bigger: that is egolessness. So whenever you say that somebody has belittled you, somebody has snatched your things, somebody has not obeyed you, somebody has not done that which you wanted, somebody has not come to your place though he or she was invited, somebody is not looking at you, somebody is not answering your questions—all that is included in your ego.

    When does your ego come?

Mary: When does my ego come? I guess if I think a thing should be done a certain way, and then I say to myself, "Oh, it’s not being done in a right way," then I think I get a bit uptight. [Laughter]

Swami-ji: Many people are called very tolerant and great people and all that. Inside, they know that they are all wrong. But outside . . . [he smiles sweetly; everyone laughs.] 

    So that is not the thing. Inside should not be there.

    I know Space, that’s all. And so when I say Space is free and pure, you are supposed to use your head with this Space: the ether which is free and pure. Air blows in it but air does not touch it. Smell goes in it, aakaash is not touched. Why is it like that? Because it is free and pure. The moment your freedom and purity is disturbed, you are into your ego. That’s all.

    You understood?

Mary: Yes. Thanks

Swami-ji: You can check it, judge it, and act freely which means, do your pooja, do your work, invite people and all that.

    Inside, only you have to work, not anybody else. Nobody else can work for you. It’s that exclusive. Therefore you can tell Guru-ji all that which happened and did not happen. He will understand it and where you are at, and he will inspire you into something whereby you will remain egoless.

Mary: Thank you, Swami-ji.

Swami-ji: Thank you very much.

Just Remain Aware

Sita: Swami-ji? You said when somebody says something that you don’t like, and you don’t want to come into duality or ego, you remain in the Self. And the highest form of discrimination is there. Now then, you are in discriminatory stage. So how does one act in the discriminatory stage? We usually act in duality.

Swami-ji: Why is it understood that you have to act?

Sita: Just remain in the awareness?

Swami-ji: Just you remain aware. That’s all. Discrimination is that. If you act and somebody will judge you, totally misinterpreting you, then he will start fighting. Just with words! Words create the problem. Words should be managed in such a way that it is a learning.

    So if discrimination and awareness says, "This man has not understood my point, and he is repeating again, again, to convince me of what I should know," you should manage the discrimination and the reality.

    But now the 'discrimination' word came in the light of indiscrimination with others—agyaan (ignorance). So if you are gyaan and I have gyaan, it will be the nicest company because I will never misunderstand you.

    At that time you have not to act.

    Once you come to know that there is always somebody around you who is agyaani, you find out among those agyaanis if they have potentiality and power to listen to you, the gyaan (knowledge). For becoming gyaani, they all are your friends. They are gyaanis, not agyaanis. They are your children. And so you should not strike your head against the wall. That’s agyaan. So at that time it is not necessary that you have to act. It’s not that you are withdrawing. You just don’t have to act. That’s it.

    Thank you. 

    Yes, Veer, come. I like them because they have initiative.

Veer: Everybody has an ego.

Swami-ji: Yes.

Veer: And when a person incites you, obviously your ego is going to play up.

Swami-ji: Yes.

Veer: Now, you can accept the fact that a person is not as evolved as you are, right? I mean, they do not know. I mean, they can’t take insults themselves yet they insult others. So how do you take this? I say, "OK, he doesn’t know what he is saying." But then I know I’m right by keeping quiet. So in one way that’s increasing my ego by saying to myself that I’m a higher being than he is. [Laughter]

Swami-ji: It’s not a higher being. No, it is not. Knowing the reality is not that you are a higher being.

    The being who is higher—he will not be feeling good because he feels higher. He knows that he is! Fire will know fire; water will know water; light will know light; darkness will know darkness. So if light knows that 'I am light,' it does not make the darkness small and then become happy.

    There are certain truths, they will remain truth. There are people who do not know. And there are people who want you to arouse the same kind of enmity or irritation from within you. This should be avoided.

Veer: Yes. I avoid the irritation. But you know, in the back of my mind is running: "You know, this guy is a fool; he doesn’t know what he is saying."

Swami-ji: No, this is not the point. He is not a fool, because you have already learned that he could not talk if God was not there within him, if Self was not within him. And Self is never a fool. Therefore, because of the Self, he is talking. It is his mind that has not learned that language.

    In English, I many times talk with incorrect pronunciation. But these people don’t mind. They don’t say I am a fool. Why? Because they know at least he talks in English. I could talk to them in Hindi. They’d be in an awkward position. So they are happy that even if some pronunciation is not alright, he is alright. So in this way, never treat anybody as a fool. You can treat as ignorant someone who does not know Hindi, or somebody else who does not know French. You can say they are ignorant of the language. But the man himself is not ignorant. He is not stupid.

    This is what the fear for a person is: that people are going to call him stupid, judge him as stupid and then interact with him knowing that he is stupid. Your work will be that you will not call the person stupid. It’s only the situation that he does not know. So he is not stupid, he just does not know.

    You understood my point? Not yet? I’ll say it in another way.

Veer: So he does not know what he is saying.

Swami-ji: Yes. He does not know what he is saying. And you meet such people at every step.

Veer: So you are just supposed to ignore them.

Swami-ji: Hanh! (Yes.). You just do your things. Or whatever you want to say to him, you say.

Veer: But won’t it be at the back of the mind, you know: "This guy said this to me?"

Swami-ji: No. This is one reason we teach our children, or our friends. They are not stupid because they are rich or they are poor or any of that. This work, in which everybody is joined, including myself, is an infinite wealth of knowledge. That is samtaa, is purity, is freedom, which people have recognized in you—that is that you don’t have that ego to say that "I am high; they are stupid."

    Do you have that?

Veer: No. Well, I mean, it could happen.

Swami-ji: No, no, it will not happen. If it has not happened, it will not happen. This is what I said to Mary. When you are egoless, you are egoless. Do pooja, do anything! Fire is fire. When you are egoless, you are egoless. Don’t be afraid of anything. You will never become ego.

I am the example of it. I was eight or nine years old and became aware. Something very extraordinary happened. I came to know. I never told anything to anybody. But I never treated anybody less or more except if I was getting all the time in my ears wrong things, wrong concepts, wrong ideas. 

    'Wrong' I call that which is not virtually virtuous and does not make me near the Self. Anything that will not take you near the Self, near the highest, treat it that that is bad company, bad work, or bad anything. 

    If your status of understanding becomes low and you begin to like things and forms in which you get involved, and you lose your nearness which you have now with your Self, all that will the result of bad company, bad persons. But you will not say to them that they are bad.

    So this is what you have to see.

Check, always in your heart

And check always in your heart. People may put such words in you that make you get angry. But at that time you have to see that anger should not come because you are aware. These are just the channels. Through your ears, the words will have some meaning. And they will arouse in you a sickness, a difficulty. You must have seen, all of you, some persons talking in such a way that you feel very bad, you feel very small. 

    Now if you are infinite, you should not feel small. But they are powerful enough to make you feel small. Now that cleverness is stupidity. [Laughter] So that you will see.

    Another point?

Veer: I have another question. I forgot… I forgot the question. Can you speak? I’ll just think.

Swami-ji: It will come. It will come. See? He is so aware. He doesn’t say "I forgot, so I’ll go." That’s what pleases me. He is established in that space of freedom. For him—I’m analyzing—I’ll say that for him it is not that he is saying, "What will these people say?" There is no duality in him. There is no ‘these’ and ‘me.’ He doesn’t care for that. It’s not there. And he also does not have this duality that I’ll have a sense of minimizing him. No. He is aware.

    What he is wanting to ask was there a couple of minutes before, but now it is not there. Why? I began to talk, and his space of inquiry is finished. So unless he remembers… Again it will come, then he will ask. So he is asking about some people who interact with him and he gets incited or excited or remains neutral.

    You have come to know that you are vulnerable to the effects of movies. All the movies—Titanic. What for Titanic? Now it’s a Hindi Titanic: it’s coming. [Laughter] I was fed up with the English even! [Laughter]

    So this is a long study. And you will be enjoying it throughout. And you will remember Me all the time. Situations will come where you will not know what to do. At that time you just phone me or Dan. I’ll let you know.

    This is the study, ongoing. But if you remain free, you will be able to ask your things.

    Yes. You must have remembered it.

Veer: Yes. I just remembered it. Is there a difference between the Knower and the conscience?

Swami-ji: Conscience? Yes. Conscience is that which we have learned: it became my conscience. Knower was always there. A person does not have conscience until it is made. So Knower is free, but this conscience is made out of consciousness.

    And then you say, "Well, my conscience feels that to fry these birds is not right." But there are some people who do fry them, who recommend it.

    So Knower is not conscience. Conscience is made. That is why if you take the child to a butcher’s house, his conscience is so made. He will take a cleaver: cut, cut, cut, cut. He will not mind.

    But conscience is made generally for the purpose of doing good. So it is often referred to the people, to the child: "You should have consulted your conscience."

Veer: So the conscience could evolve.

Swami-ji: Yes. So then conscience could be just transcended, finished. Knower will remain forever. In this way we know Knower. And then inner being who is conscious being— ‘I’— should be remembering, "Knower am I," and realizing, "The Knower am I in identification." That is realization. The being which says. 'you, thou,' is not being trained to say that "I am that Knower." It is trained only to know that 'I am my name,' 'I am Phillippa,' 'I am Rekha,' 'I am this.'

    This ‘I’ will identify itself with the Knower because Knower is free: it’s nature is free. And because of the Knower, the world is moving. Then, at that time, you will be in tune with the Knower, and world’s movements will not affect you.


Veer: Thanks Swami-ji.

Swami-ji: Thank you.

    He is very deep. I remember when I was young enough, at nine years or twelve years or so, I would lecture. I would give talks even to people fifty, seventy, eighty years old. And for hours together. They were so surprised. They liked me to invite them, and they came. And they liked to invite me. So I got very pleased.

    He came to know the meaning of conscience. And somebody must have said that conscience is God. Many people say, "My conscience didn’t allow me…"

    There was this interviewer in Vancouver, who was the chairman of that Rotary Club or something like that. So I was on the television with him and he said to me, "Swami, I heard that you are vegetarian."

    I said, "Yes."

    He said, "Are you against non-vegetarians?"

    I said, "Well, why should I be against non-vegetarians? They know what to do. It’s not a question of my going against them or not. They are not snatching my vegetarianism!"

    So he said, "Suppose you are given meat at this time, and you are non-vegetarian, will your conscience allow you to eat it?"

    I said, "Well look, you are talking on a different plane: you are saying, ‘suppose.’ I am not theoretical. You talk to me. And you know that I am vegetarian and I don’t meat: I told you."

    So then he said, "Oh yeah. You answered my question. But then I want to ask you, do you eat eggs?"

    He wanted to ask this, so I said, "No. I don’t eat eggs."

    He said, "What is wrong with eggs? With meat, it's just possible killing is involved."

    I said, "That’s your idea. But egg, I don’t eat."

    He said, "Must be that those eggs produce birdies and then they are killed. You must be thinking like that."

    I said, "No. I just don’t eat them."

    He said, "Why?"

    I said, "I know, as yogi, from where the egg is produced. It’s not from beak! I am sensitive enough. Anything which comes from such a place, I’m not going to eat!" [Swami-ji chuckles.] 

    Somebody’s conscience is made in such as way that he can eat egg. He can eat that because he is told that it’s alright. So conscience is a word which people interpret as inner reality.

    But what is the truth? It is that Knower is unchanging. It is not born, thus it is not dead. And Knower has got nothing to do with what is happening between birth and death. But if a human being realizes and comes to know the Knower on the level of his reflection of the Knower—the intellect—then his intellect and Knower are one.

    At that time the discrimination is said to belong to the Self. According to the Self , the body will happen. The body’s action will happen. Talks will happen. Time and space, and everything will happen.

    But there the man will remain free

Previous Satsang
           Next Satsang
Copyright © 1999-2005 International Meditation Institute. All Rights Reserved