Swamiji asked
Anandi to tell him about some of her activities. She
talked about a school trip to Costa Rica during which she and her friend
Ashley saved turtle eggs from poachers. Swamiji gave the following satsang just
after hearing Anandi’s story.
Swamiji: Seeing all of you, it is the moment of welcome. We can see
each other and hear each other, even though the things that you describe are
in the past;
they are not here. But because it never happens that in the present
moment there is something to describe, so we meet together and in the name
of a welcome we say something and we hear something. Why? Because
we are always eager to know something. And if knowing is worthwhile,
you would like to hear, and I would like to let you know one thing, which
will always be retained by you.
If you have an individual egg, which has no mouth, no eyes, no face,
nothing—it’s just an egg, but that egg has life—then you can break it
and see the yellow yolk, which is not like the shell. It is yellow stuff,
but how is it that in that yellow stuff the life is there? A tortoise
can come, or a bird can come. And see, a tortoise comes and he never flies—
he goes towards the ocean. It means that in the yellow yolk, not only
is there liquid, but there is some knowingness. According to its nature,
the egg which has been produced by a tortoise has the originality, in its
awareness, that it goes to the ocean. And the bird, when it has wings,
flies to the sky or trees. But a duck, which is also a bird, goes towards
a pond or a lake. It means that even when an egg is not produced or
is not visible, knowledge exists. Without knowledge a tortoise cannot
meet another tortoise. So it is not actually the tortoise’s physical
being, or that their meeting is physical—it is knowledge which is meeting
knowledge. And knowledge is indivisible. If it is indivisible,
then when knowledge becomes a form, why should the characteristics of knowledge
be lost? It will still be knowledge.
It is only a human being, who is said to have a very great nervous system,
with the functioning of all the senses, who forgets this thing—that he is
knowledge. And this forgetfulness is not his creation. It is also
hidden in that very yellow yolk, or in the womb of the mother, or in the semen,
that knowledge and forgetfulness are there together. When knowledge
sprouts, then knowledge comes. When ignorance sprouts, then ignorance
comes. Therefore, a human being is both knowledge and ignorance, but
ignorance can be called knowledge because even though a man is ignorant of
the original Self, he knows things and forms. So knowledge is there. We cannot
say he has ignorance or is in complete darkness, because knowledge is there,
but in this case, his knowledge is of things and forms. Why? Because
an individual form is visible, an individual form is produced or made. Therefore,
it should be known to anyone who is seeking Self-knowledge that he is not
a form. You say you are a form, but this is your mistake. Nobody
told you that you are knowledge itself. And being a form or having a
form, you think knowledge is when you see a cup of tea and drink it. We
do not see that this is knowledge of the Self, or that water is knowledge,
or tea is knowledge, or my lips are knowledge. So a man has a concept, an
idea, and an awareness of knowledge that knowledge must be that which cannot
be a form. And that is why Guru is helpless and the disciple is helpless. Guru
keeps saying, “You are only knowledge,” and the disciple says, “No, it is
not possible.” But the disciple does not deny it, because he thinks
that if Guru knows, then his words must be knowledge, so let me try to find
out where it is when he says this.
Then when Guru becomes ready he lets you know about what happens when you
have a dream. How is it that in a dream, you do not take earth, you
do not take the pieces of wood, you do not take a carpenter, masons, and you
do not take an architect; but a house is visible? So how is the
house visible to a dreamer? The house is not solid, of the type that
a man in the waking state sees. In the waking state he goes though the process
of building, and then he sees the house. But in a dream the house is
already there and the dreamer knows it. You will say, in the waking
state, that the dreamer’s knowledge is not the house, and even the knowledge
of the dreamer is not the dreamer himself. Therefore knowledge is separate,
the dreamer is separate, the house is separate, and the people living in the
house are separate. This sense of separation is illusory. And
it is known to be illusory only when the dreamer wakes up. Guru knows that
a human being is a gross form of illusion, but a man only knows that he is
there, and he must be made from earth, fire, water, air, and all that; so
he must be a formed combination of the tattwas, or elements, and he
cannot be made of knowledge. But when he sees that knowledge is there,
the mind is there, and the senses are there, then he gets confused. But
because his system works and it doesn’t give him any kind of problem, then
he doesn’t question and he just continues working. He never examines. He
never sits down and tries to figure out what it is, or how it is, that everything
is known. If everything is known, and in deep sleep it is not known,
perhaps we can guess that for a person in deep sleep the world must have died
by now – it must not be there. If a man sleeps for six hours and dissolution
takes place—all kinds of things are dissolved and are not there, they are
all gone—then in six hours the world was not there for him. But when
he wakes up he sees everything just as it was yesterday, so he thinks it was
not dissolved. But in the deep sleep state it all was dissolved. So
the knowledge works both ways. Things are dissolved in deep sleep and
there is no knowledge, and things are visible in the waking state and there
is knowledge. And it cannot happen that knowledge should be called ignorance
and ignorance should be called knowledge by a human being. It’s
only Guru—for him knowledge is knowledge, there is no ignorance. Even
if people say ignorance, he hears it, but he says, “How would you say I am
ignorant of some fact. It is a knowledge with which you say I am ignorant.” But
it is not possible for a human being to figure this out, so he remains confused
throughout his life.
I would like to let you know how the knowledge should be perceived so that
it should be all knowledge. The dream state is a very clear example
for you. But because sometimes dreams come and sometimes they do not,
people do not think that a dream is a fit example. But these days everything
is modern, and you know about television. On a television show a person
speaking is there, a room is there, tables are there, and a partner is there
who listens to the speaker. Things are there on the television, forms
are there, and all the world: mountains, and windows, and rivers, and a ferry
are there and even traveling takes place in the scene; all seen by a man watching
television. Now, while watching the television he has a remote control
in hand, and when he uses it, in a split second all the scenes are gone. He
should know what happened. It is all gone because it was light. And
again, when he turns it on, there are the same figures and all of the previous
scene, so it was light. If a human being sees it, his eyes will delude him
into thinking that there is a television set, and on the program there is
a sentient being and there are insentient mountains or trees or rocks.
But if television’s light sees the man, then light is the man, the man is
light. Light sees the mountain, then the mountain is light, and light
is the mountain. Light is the home and the home is light. And
light is action, by which he speaks and moves, and action and speech are light. The
war scenes are light, and light is the war scenes. There’s nothing else—only
light. So when I say it’s only knowledge, all of you are so intelligent,
that through this example you can figure out why it is that you understand
that in the television set it’s all light. You know that on television
this is a light man, and a light girl, a light boy, a light drama, a light
dance; everything is light and you understand it. But unintelligent
people do not understand this. They say, “Oh, what a wonderful scene,
what a wonderful drama.” And they say, “Come on and I’ll show you.” But for
you, there’s only light; therefore, many times you are not interested in television. Why? Because
the reality is known to you…therefore you have no raag (liking
or attachment) for the television. Why? Because you have reached
the state that you are light. So then you know that anytime I see, I’ll
see myself as light, all the figures as light, and then, my figure is also
of light. But it will be only when your vision or I is enlightened—then
all this is light. As long as your light, your awareness, is not enlightened
you will always be a person with bulk, and there will be other persons with
bulk, and this goes on. And then for you things will be changing, persons
will be changing, and if you do not grow in your awareness, you will not be
able to say it’s one reality, one knowledge, one time, one space, and that
it is all Oneness.
Therefore, when we meet now, we feel joyful because I see that you are there,
and you see that I am here. But if somebody knows that it’s all knowledge,
he will be much more delighted. But you think that if I say “much more
knowledge,” then there will be no forms. There are persons who say that
there are no forms because there is only light, as if on the television you
see light, so it is only blue light, and you can’t see forms. So there
is something that has to be understood. That with which you are not able to
understand makes you see the clouds, or the sun, the moon, or the stars on
the screen of the television set, and makes you think that they are separate
and you are separate. This sense is called the sense of separation. This
sense of separation is a definite eye, e-y-e, and as long as that eye is functioning
as the sense of otherness, you will never have the sense of Oneness. And
because the time, or dimension, of this eye is in the sense of otherness,
then you have to reach that time where your eye remains opened and it sees
vision as vision, where there’s nothing but vision. And that is possible
if somebody tells you, and you hear it and figure it out; but it depends on
the individual nervous system and head as to what is heard and understood. I
am saying these words and you are hearing them, but with regard to understanding,
everybody has his own different timing, or dimension of understanding. Somebody’s
understanding is in the deep sleep timing. Somebody’s understanding
is in dream timing, and somebody’s understanding is in waking state timing. But
somebody’s understanding is in enlightened timing.
As long as I have this enlightened timing, I’ll be letting you know that
love is one. We are sitting and we are figures of love. This
you can understand. Figures you can understand, but through the figures
you cannot understand love. You can say, “it’s a kind of nice word, ‘love,’
but I don’t see where love is. I can see a cup and I can drink tea. But
love?” So love is one light, knowledge is one light, and all the forms,
wherever a person is seeing them—whether he is an agyaani or a gyaani (unknowledgeable
or knowledgeable)—it’s only one vision, one light. And you have understood
this on this day, which is the evening of the 11th of July, 2004. You
have come from different, different places, and you think the places were
there. I think it’s all knowledge. Then how will knowledge be
distance?… It’s all the field of knowledge… So this will
be the enlightened state—it will be knowledge that will see knowledge. But
those persons who are forms will see only forms because the senses are made
so… And here I say there is a possibility that you are able to see that
it is all knowledge. It has been knowledge, it is knowledge, and it
will always be knowledge. I say this so that you can understand that
the past has been, the present is here, the future is there, but in knowledge
where is present, where is past, and where is future? It’s all one reality,
in one time…so anybody who goes, after hearing me in this enlightened time,
is also in enlightened time, and knows that Swamiji is saying a correct thing
– that it is all Knowledge. Thank you very much.
July 11, 2004
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