Robert Walters: How does the sense of I manifest? I don’t think it manifested
just when people started calling me Robert. Is there a sense of I in a newborn
child, on some level?
Swamiji: All of you have heard his question. He wants to know how this I
has been manifested. Because you have known this—that it has manifested—I
can easily answer your question by saying that I is that which has never manifested.
You will be free from this very rigid idea, that the manifestation of I has
taken place. I have been speaking for 35 years that I is that which is never
born, which means that it has never manifested. But you are a victim of your
seeing through the eyes, and that is the defect of your eyes. You have been
given eyes of the kind that will see manifestation. But there could be someone
like me who never sees manifestation. Then how, for me, has the I manifested?
So, I’ll not answer your question in this way, saying that I has never manifested.
I’ll say that I manifests only when the waking state starts.
Now I started on the trip of ignorance, and you will like it. [Laughter]
The first answer was the knowledge, it was the truth; but at that time you
were quiet, there was no delight. You could not understand it, because the
understanding of your mind or intellect is ingrained in the thought, or functioning,
that says, "I am a manifest form of Robert Walters." And you understand
that when my mommy was there [before my birth took place] I was not. When
I was in the womb of my mother, I was not. Even before the seed or sperm or
DNA, I was not. So you are saying the same thing, that I was not, but why
did you become I now? I’ll say your friends, your people, and your folks made
you learn this—that I exist as Robert.
If I talk you will start liking it. But why should I talk, when you already
know the things that you know? Why should I repeat the same? Such as, your
I is never there in deep sleep. It is only when your waking state body is
born, so I is born. When the body of Robert was born, your I was born. It
is another thing, that the child had no ability at that time to say I, but
he was drinking milk as I. I was hungry, so I was there. So I comes at the
same time the waking state comes. And when I comes with the waking state,
then at the same time, the forgetfulness comes of that I, which I’m calling
unborn. Therefore, this is the state of human affairs. You have understood
that I is not there. [Alka arrives in satsang] Alka came, Alka’s body
came; as an airplane comes or lands, she landed. But where is I? But because
she has been with human beings, when I say this, she’ll say, "Well, I
was in that school and that school, and I was at home, and I was preparing
to come to satsang, Swamiji, and I’m sorry I’m ten minutes late, but
better late than never." And in all these things—I. She will use I, but
do you think she is I? Her clothes that were in the shop, were they I? Her
necklace, is it I? So there is no I. You work on that. …
It’s true that absolute faith can work, and then you will be liberated when
I say, "Well, look, you are that who is not born." You can translate
it as I—I am that who is not born. Then you will not condemn the language,
you will not blame your parents, you will not blame your body, you’ll not
blame action, you’ll not blame your schooling, or the world. It will be all
wonderful when I’ll come to know that Guruji has said, "I’m really not
born. Therefore, from here to here [indicates head to toe], I’m not." This
you can understand, but when you hear, "I alone am everywhere, Self is
everywhere," you get deluded. God is everywhere, Paramaatma is
everywhere, which you are hearing, learning it as if you are a school child.
…But you are not a school child now. …
Whatever you have learned up to now, that has paid you. So you are in a consciousness
of profit and loss. The profit is that your body is born, your loss is if
your body is lost, or dead. And that is your I which you made—the body. So
have faith that Swamiji has liberated that I, which means that Swamiji has
taken it from you and I is never there. And still your knowledge is working,
your ears are working, that is not I; your eyes are seeing, that is not I;
your nose is smelling, that is not I; your stomach is churning, that is not
I; your feet are walking, that is not I; and every single cell is doing its
own work, but it is not I. This is the liberated state. Otherwise, why would
a man want liberation, and from what? He has got everything. What is that
which is not enough for you to live? You have everything. Food you have, time
you have, space you have, day you have, night you have, sun you have, moon
you have—everything is there. …
So now, let me know where is the creator of the figures that are in the light
on the television? It is light itself. So light is the Knower. If the Knower
is light, then the manifestation of light on the television, that blue-blue
screen, is also the Knower. If the Knower is that, then the figures are also
the Knower, they can be created by the Knower…then it’s one Knower. So if
you know the Knower, then where is I? The Knower alone is, the Knower alone
is all that there is. The Knower is the television, it is the television figures,
it is the television games, and the Knower is you, the one who is watching.
Is it not one Reality? Then why would you feel victimized by the sense of
duality of this mind, which you have accepted, thinking that it is there?
That’s why we can talk to you. …
The one who is convinced, and knows at heart, that I am That who is unborn
and free, will be able to deal with all the situations in the world. He will
never be the victim of a wrong imposition of the body being placed on top
of him. …Many times you have heard me saying that a potter makes jugs, and
the jug becomes a jug space and then says, "I am chaytan, I am
space, I am a jug, I am light." And the space says, "I’m not light,
I’m not space, I’m not ether, I’m not aakaash—I’m a jug. Why? Because
I’m superimposed with the body." And when the jug is taken out, the flowers
[inside a glass which Swamiji was holding were several small jasmine flowers]
do not feel that I became less because the glass is taken away. Also, when
this body [the flowers] is superimposed on the fragrance, the fragrance does
not say that I became less. But a human being is busy saying, "I am less." This
is due to the superimposition of the changing stuff—that is the body. …I say
Self is—you do not say this. You hear it, and you like it. Liking is your aanand,
but you are still there to like it. So then, you are "not Self." And "not
Self" has imposed on you the Self’s awareness of "not Self." And "not
Self" is the mechanism of the waking state chitt, or mind. The
moment the waking state of consciousness comes, you become superimposed upon.
Immediately you say I. To Robert I said, "You let me know, where is I?
You are accepting the state of wakefulness with the body, with a form, which
are taken together as a jug. The potter has made the same earth into a jug,
and now the jug cannot say, "I am earth." It is we who see that
earth must be the same earth, but it is now a pot. But the pot does not accept
this, because it sees the earth as flat or lying like a kind of round ball.
The pot says, "I am space (inside) and I have this shape." Immediately
the consciousness of a pot came. So the pot will not say, "I am earth"...
that I has been superimposed on you, which is not I, but the I is called this
body. That’s why I say I am that I which is fragrance, which is infinite,
which can go around the earth or around the sky—everywhere it is That, and
That you are. … But the very nature that has worked on you and made you a
person, has introduced this invisible sense of I, which you have asked me
about. It happens in the waking state—the nature couldn’t work on you when
you were asleep, but the moment you came into the waking state, nature took
the chance to make you I, and since then I, that’s all. …
I
know that bodies are sitting, and human beings know that they are human
beings. That actually is the science. You cannot go against it—never. Even
thousands
of years, or millions of years before, they could not go against that.
So the scientific fact is that when a bird comes out of the egg, it says, "Mommy,
put a pick in my mouth." Maybe it doesn’t say it in language—it speaks
in its own language—but from where does this I come? That is science, therefore,
we don’t dismantle I. When he had asked, "Well, I do not know from where
I comes, so please tell me," then scientifically I have answered, "It
comes from the waking state." And he’s convinced, because he is a scientist.
He observes, and our observation is that whatever we have experienced in a
practical manner, with this body, with these eyes, and with the mind, then
we will be convinced of that. But when he was serious and he exhibited or
exuded the faith that whatever I’ll say he will accept, and either work on
it or completely accept it, then I took a chance and said, "I never comes.
I is never manifested." The bird’s body mechanism is there—the nature
has made it, so let the bird do the job. Why should I ask from where the I
of the bird comes? And, in relation to that, why should I ask from where I
as Robert Walters comes? …You now know that I has never been in manifestation.
…So you will never die, because I is not born. What a great sense of liberation
I am offering you.
Amaram Hum Madhuram Hum
July 26, 2004
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