Satsang  –   Volume 4,  Number 3 : July 13, 2001
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Supreme Existence, Supreme Liberation

Swamiji: Yes Jonty, come and say something.

Jonty: First of all, I just really wanted to give you my profound appreciation.

Swamiji: I like such persons because they understand something; only then can they appreciate. Persons like you never understand anything [laughter].

Jonty: The level of satsang, which with you is indescribable, just the atmosphere here with the Shyams, what you've created, is true nirvaana [liberation] for me, and I'm so grateful for being here. I really enjoyed the satsang when you gave that revelation on desire and concentration, because, of course, I had been thinking about the same thing. It really struck a chord, and I've been thinking a lot about it since then, in terms of my own life and the changes that I've made. I wanted to just briefly describe that to you, and, if I may, ask a question afterwards. I was thinking about that revelation on desire, which was so much how I lived my life. I was thinking about where that fitted and where that desire is now, because I have a lot less desire now, it's almost like a natural course of getting older.

Swamiji: It's not a question of you're getting older, so you have less desire. Many of the oldest people have more desire than you. It's not that old people have less desire, so this is due to age. Age is no criterion. You are becoming desireless because you are becoming knowledgeable.

Jonty: Well, I was thinking about how that knowledge came about, and I think all my life I've heard, as if, a soft voice talking to me. I guess during my life the voice — which I now know is the voice of Self — became louder and louder until my life stopped making sense in terms of what I really understood. Ten years ago I observed that although I had my business and my friends and they gave me pleasure, and it was entertainment and it was good, it really just became a game. I could feel as if my real life was somewhere else, because of this voice, as if my real life was a far off place and I was just caught in this game which was making less and less sense.

Swamiji: So, then you began to understand that that voice is You. Call it somewhere, call it here, call it there, but you began to catch that voice. Who began to catch it? The very voice. For an ordinary man, the voice is caught, so it hears the voice of the mind, which desires. Now, it started listening to itself, who doesn't desire.

Jonty: That's right. And what happened was that although I felt I was successful in my relative life, it was making less and less sense because of the voice, and it became intolerable. I thought I had to pursue the voice if I was to give any credence to this life.

Swamiji: You needed some clarity, that's all. Somebody had to say this.

Jonty: So, the story goes on. I arrive here, and the voice is you, and you have mirrored the Self.

Swamiji: That's all. That's very clear, very clear. Because that's the voice: in any way you hear it, it is the same Being that represents that voice. Having caught that, having known that is what you are, then you do nice things with this life, if it is given time to be lived, that's all. You don't need anything, you don't have to make anything — and you can do anything, you can make anything. It's just beyond everything, and that is You. That's called total Freedom. So, once you've got total Freedom, then that is your status, that is your voice, that is your Self, that is Shyam, that is Param Satta, Supreme Reality. Bolo Param Satta Shuddh Chaytan Kee Jai! [Speak the Glory of the Supreme Reality, Pure Consciousness!]

Jonty: If I may ask one thing here, Swamij, about what I've been thinking about for the last couple of days since you gave the satsang on desire and concentration? I was looking at, as if, the mechanical working in my system, and I noticed that in the days when ambition was driving me, concentration was easy because there was desire that was pushing me forward. I knew what to do, it was very clear, because I could see chess pieces that needed to be played: the game. Now, as you were saying, there is no form, there is no colour, there is nothing to see, it just is. But something which I have been struggling with a bit is my level of concentration nowadays, my level of concentration in satsang and in meditation.

Swamiji: No. In that Self there is no level, no level of concentration. All your idea of concentration, which you call concentration, will wash off completely. You may say "Hunter" [his son], then for two days you will not remember Hunter at all. Even if you are talking to Krishna or Phillipa about Hunter, at the time when you want to say "Hunter," it will not come to you. So, what is concentration of the previous type? You became the Self, that's all. That's called the concentrated state, for which we are born.

These are the games of the senses. For example, Dikpal has a brain for mathematics. It will not remain there. He has started forgetting everything, because he's turning into the Self. Yet in a split second he went and brought the shawls. He never thought twice whether he has any at home or not. He went and found that they were there; and if they were not there, if there was time, he would have gone to Gupta [the shawl shop] and brought them, which means, he is nobody as a person. This should happen. If it has happened, fine. If it has not happened, it will happen, folks, to you. That's called complete Param Nirvaan [Supreme Liberation].

Because we are human beings, who told you this? Why did you believe that you are a human being? You are That who makes the dream manifest. You can't catch him. You are That who makes deep sleep manifest. You are That who makes all your family manifest. You are That who made you as a person to do these things. You can get these manifestations, but not him. The day you get him, you are concentrated, because That alone is. So, this is enough at this time. It's very nice. I thank you and congratulate you and will see you again in the next session. Thank you very much. Bye everyone.

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