You Have the Power to Not Be Affected

Turiya: Thank you for stirring the mind so much, especially when you say the word "Turiya," for somehow my mind is stirred. You had spoken earlier about exposure. I’m not afraid of being exposed to you because you know me as I am, but I’m afraid of being exposed to these people. I wonder what I’m being exposed in, and what the fear of exposure is?

Swamiji: It is just because you understood what I had said. I had said nothing—no exposed, no you, no these people, no me. But you think that I had spoken. When you have asked, then I have come to tell you that you have understood something. If you have understood, then you have a mind, and if you have a mind, I know its functioning. The mind’s functioning is that it identifies with itself, and in such a way that it knows "I am the best. I am the only knower, nobody else." The mind says that "I am Turiya, and these people are people."… The functioning of mind is such that you will not like to be seen as belittled. That’s all. That’s the nature of the mind and of a human being. Wherever he feels small and belittled, he is so smart that he will not go there. He only goes to such persons about whom he thinks, "He knows me. He does not hate me, remove me, or throw me away." He only goes to the village, city, or country where there is a visa. So every human being has to examine himself and question, "Who do I call myself and who do I call thyself?" Why is it that a human being does not call them this in deep sleep, although he is the same body?" It is your turn.

Turiya: That shows that whatever he’s calling myself—whatever I have called myself—was never true, because it’s not there all the time.

Swamiji: As long as it is there, you should accept that it is true and understand, "Yeah, it clicks to me that it’s not really true, yet I call it true. How long will I call it true and be attached to it? If I’ll be attached, then I’ll be feeling bad when somebody wants me to be detached—because I’m attached." Then all the emotions, all the mind, and all the things will just crop up. It’s a kind of army. If the Kullu King goes to Mandi, he takes his paraphernalia. In the same way, when the mind comes, he takes his paraphernalia—and that becomes Turiya. Whatever you have learned, that learning goes in you. Whatever steps you walk, that memory goes in you. Whatever acquaintances you have, that also goes with you. Wherever the King Turiya goes, everybody goes there. That is where Turiya is. When the soul of the waking state is established in Turiya [the fourth state, the Vision of Oneness], then Turiya absorbed it, and it is no more a soul of the waking state, nor of the deep sleep state, nor of the dream. That’s the meaning of Turiya. Turiya alone is at that time, because all these dwellers of the three states, or the soul, got into Turiya and became the Turiya king, so they are not there. …

The human mind accepts whatever is conventional. When my English headmaster had slapped me, then I had said, "Yeah, k-n-i-f-e is ok for knife." Otherwise, I was just struggling, asking him, "Why have you put a ‘k’ there, when you don’t pronounce it?" Each person’s mind, whether a boy’s or a girl’s, is such that whatever he thinks is right, only that is right. But when he starts learning, then the stiffness is broken. Then he begins to accept that "I really do not have that much mind to claim that I know English. He knows better." So I became expanded. I began to accept it. You can learn. If you accept that you have not learned or that you do not know and somebody else knows, then you can ask for the recipe, you can ask this or that, and you can learn. But without learning, if you claim to know, that’s not correct.

Turiya: According to your description of the waking state and of Turiya, I definitely don’t know how I am Turiya.

Swamiji: You don’t have to. Because I said that you are Turiya, you say, "Yes, please." That’s all. What is there for you to know about Turiya?

Turiya: I do know that I’d like to live the state of Turiya and that I’m not living it.

Swamiji: This is not exposure. It is knowing, as it is. Now I will give you a description of Turiya, because you are a student, and a student is supposed to have the mind to hear and grasp words, assimilate their meaning according to his own understanding, and then express what he feels. … Somewhere you are influenced—affected by words, by movies, by wars, by birthdays, by death. You are in the waking state. This is what the map is. If you want to be Turiya, if you know that "I want to be That," then you have the power to not accept being affected—which you are trying to. Then you are getting Turiya. But Turiya has not become perfect. You will not be affected by my words. Somehow there is something in you by which you think, "If he’s saying it, then it’s alright. If he says that I haven’t grasped Turiya, then it’s alright." But what if anyone else says that you are not Turiya or that you do not have a Ph.D.? Tell Abhaya or Shaarda, "You really got these fake certificates," and see their reaction.

Turiya. You say the power is there not to be that. Knowing that it is changing, and knowing that I have the power, how do I connect with the power not to be affected and influenced by the world?

Swamiji: Slowly and slowly, you’ll be affected less, less, less, less. … As long as raag-dwaysh [attachment-aversion, or the sense of otherness] is there, know that you are in the waking state.

Turiya: When I am in the process of study and notice that there are times when there is no raag-dwaysh, I want to bank on that.

Swamiji: No, there are not times. Raag-dwaysh is a state. It’s the waking state. It’s not that there are times when there is no raag-dwaysh. You must have your own interpretation of raag-dwaysh. I am speaking that which perhaps cannot be spoken in words, yet I speak: Raag-dwaysh is the waking state. … As long as the waking state is there, it is confirmed that it is raag-dwaysh. In deep sleep, it is not. Right? In deep sleep, what is not? The mind. Therefore, the mind is the waking state, and raag-dwaysh is the mind. When there is Turiya, it is similar to deep sleep, yet you are awake. In Turiya, there will be no raag-dwaysh. That will be the enlightened state. That’s called the fourth state. You can hear this description and try to copy it. Will that be possible? Bring it in your action, in your behaviour, rather than only in a thesis. You can also write a thesis, and that will serve the purpose of getting marks, but this is to be experienced in your daily behaviour.

Turiya: Swamiji, is there some kind of key that I can know that I’m free from the waking state while I’m acting, so that I can have a gage?

Swamiji: Follow the norm and standard, the technique. Suppose a person does not know hath yog. He will do it in any way and say it is hath yog. But he has to follow the teachings, or a teacher, or practically do it. Then he will know. So that is the key. The key is practice. You can practise it in your life. That’s all. In every situation, every time—eating, drinking, going here and there—you must know that I have no abhimaan, no identification with my I. … You are not doing, yet everything is being done. Then, what is not there? Abhimaan, identification, is not there. Such as I have a table on which there is a camel and a king and queen riding on it. I put my chapati on the camel’s mouth. [laughter] Now for me, the camel was eating. But the camel had no such identification as "I am eating." And he’s a camel. This is somewhat the description of Turiya.

Turiya: Without your description, there’d be no hope.

Swamiji: Absolutely no hope. Without Guru—that Guru who is Guru—there is no hope. Guru means the Turiyateet [beyond Turiya] state, not even Turiya. He is alive and he is not alive. That’s the kind of thing. He sees and he does not see. You have learned these quotations from scriptures. But be That. That’s all. If you meditate and it is unfolded, then you will know it. Then, you will not have to learn from scriptures and then describe it. It will be your own experience. The people who know how to swim do not have to worry about its description. They say, "Come on. I’ll show you." They show you, and you begin to swim.

There’s no technique other than meditation. Only meditation—which does not have to be done twenty-four hours a day, because you have to do certain other things also. But at least you can do it for ten minutes daily. In ten minutes, why would you not be able to say, "Amaram Madhuram Chaytan Shyam is That"? When you close your eyes, this is That. In that, find out what colour, face, form, or imagination there is: it’s nothing, it’s just the underlying Reality. It is there—which I know. And I know That knows, That is hearing me. I respect That. I salute That. I will never belittle it. Why? I am That.

Turiya: Swamiji, I just want to thank you for filling me with a kind of whole new sense. I feel like you made it all new.

Swamiji: Yes, you’re freed. Generally, whenever I speak, I mean or I do not mean: these are just words. But liberation is the target. And you speak of liberation as if it were dependent on some learning. What is that liberation which is dependent? In this way, you come to know you are that liberation, you are that freedom. But you can watch how difficult it is for a human being, because he became the body. He has the capacity to know "I am Free." But he is not free. So the crying and tears come, and so many things appear. Thank you very much.

Turiya: They are tears of thankfulness.

Swamiji: You are Free. That’s all. Just know you are Pure, Free, Forever. With vengeance, keep knowing it. Anytime there is anything by which you feel hit and hurt, at that time especially, check: I am Pure, Free, Forever. And then react. [laughter] Thank you.

You are very lovely, very good, very beautiful. Because that’s called Satyam Shivam Sundaram, Truth, Beauty, and Bliss. You hear these words, but you have never executed them in your life. You hear them, like the camel on my table. But it is good that you are a human being and you can really get That. The moment you get Satyam Shivam Sundaram, all its army will come to you. All the good army will reach you, and you will be filled with accommodation, sympathy, joy, light, and all such things, because they are the army of Satyam Shivam Sundaram. And sadness, worry, tension, and agitation are the army of the mind. Yes, thank you.