Jayanti: Thank you, Swami ji. You said the other day, and again this morning, that in deep sleep and meditation, that is Guru. And I had heard a point….
Swami ji: In deep sleep?
Jayanti: That that is Guru.
Swami ji: I have not said this.
Jayanti: No?
Swami ji: No. How did you hear it?
Jayanti: I read it out of my notes.
Swami ji: That’s all. But you said “today.”
Jayanti: Oh, okay. Thank you, corrected. In order to understand that, I was thinking about the point where you said….
Swami ji: How would you understand, if it is in deep sleep?
Jayanti: I am trying to understand it with my intellect, when I am awake.
Swami ji: Yes. When you are awake, then intellect arises.
Jayanti: Yes.
Swami ji: Okay. Then you want to understand deep sleep?
Jayanti: No. I want to understand how Guru is everything, and how I am Guru. I think that is the real question.
Swami ji: I see. You must have seen children making forms of mud or dough. So you as an elder know that all the forms which the children have made, they are mud. You know that. So then, why do the children not know it? They are making forms, and if their form is broken, they weep. Right?
Jayanti: Yes, they do.
Swami ji: And though the form again becomes mud, and you know that it is mud, why is the child weeping?
Jayanti: Probably because he thinks he owns it. He owns whatever he is making.
Swami ji: Why does he own it?
Jayanti: I think the ego does that, from an early age.
Swami ji: So then ego is that which does not allow you to know the Guru.
Jayanti: So, how can I not have ego?
Swami ji: You just know it: ego exists, and then you know that forms are there. If you come to know that forms are not there, then ego is not there.
Jayanti: And that would be through meditation and through listening to you?
Swami ji: Meditation is a technique. In meditation, you are convinced that there are no forms. So if you meditate and you know that there are no forms, then why would you not know this in the waking state? Just open the eyes and know that forms are not there
Jayanti: I think sometimes I do know that.
Swami ji: Sometimes you know. Then that is correct.
Jayanti: But not all the time.
Swami ji: That is not my concern!
Jayanti: That’s why we are here.
Swami ji: You are here because I want to tell you: Do not recognize that forms are there! Dikpal is not there, but why do you say Dikpal is there? Because ego is there.
Jayanti: Because the eyes see him.
Swami ji: Yes. The eyes are ego. When eyes are not, then touch is ego. When touch is not, then ears are ego. When ears are not, then taste is ego. When all are not, then die! So Guru is death. That’s why someone said that Guru does not exist.
Jayanti: So then, my next question is about dying.
Swami ji: No.
Jayanti: Yes, I do have a question about it.
Swami ji: Because, for you, somebody dies.
Jayanti: No….
Swami ji: But you are not dead. Then why do you talk about death?
Jayanti: Because….
Swami ji: Because they say it. Your mother and other people say that somebody died.
Jayanti: Yes. And my mother will die. I know that her body will die.
Swami ji: Then why will you not die? Mother is a body, and you are a body.
Jayanti: But I am coming to know that I am Guru.
Swami ji: Yes. So then, Guru will not die.
Jayanti: No.
Swami ji: So why do you include the body, the form?
Jayanti: Because my question is, when the second Nepal earthquake happened….
Swami ji: No, no! We do not include that.
Jayanti: No?
Swami ji: People have died because of heat. In Andhra Pradesh, seventy people died. It was worse than the earthquake. In the earthquake, many people were still alive. So you are talking about your ego. It is your ego that knows somebody is born and somebody dies. If you can remove ego, then why would you say that people are born and people die?
Jayanti: When….
Swami ji: You are saying “when” because of ego.
Jayanti: I see.
Swami ji: That’s all.
Jayanti: So you are saying that even when….
Swami ji: No matter what you say, as long as ego is there you cannot get out of it.
Jayanti: So even if we think that we touch death, or Self….
Swami ji: We do not touch the Self. As long as ego is there, you haven’t touched the Self. A blind man is also there, he also touches something, but he does not touch the Self.
Jayanti: So there is no death until your body dies. We have no sense or understanding or experience of it.
Swami ji: If you understand that there is no death, you will understand that there is no birth.
Jayanti: Yes. I think, then, in my mind I must still think that there is death.
Swami ji: That’s all. In your mind, that is all ego. Mind means ego. Ego, intellect, mind, it is all ego.
Jayanti: Okay. Yes, I understand what you are saying. But I don’t always know it. That’s why I am asking the question.
Swami ji: That’s why I am answering!
Jayanti: Thank you, Swami ji. Thank you so much.
Swami ji: Thank you. Yes, please.
Paul: Thank you, Swami ji. I have been reading this small Gita book for the last two weeks. It is beautiful because it’s so concise, so small. It is easy to contemplate, rather than a big book. And verse five in particular has made a big impression on me. It is about illusion, the illusion of the mind. It says that this illusion, even the concept that there is an illusion, does not belong to me. It belongs to Krishn, it belongs to Guru, it belongs to the Absolute.
Swami ji: Yes.
Paul: Yet for much of my life I have been trying to achieve a state of no mind.
Swami ji: Yes.
Paul: Which I think is the wrong way of looking at it. It should be a state of not claiming the mind. The mind is just a fact of life, it just exists. And in verse five you are saying, do not claim the illusion. At that point, the mind is just…it is almost irrelevant. Am I in the right direction?
Swami ji: Yes. If you are not claiming the mind, not claiming the illusion, not claiming the intellect, not claiming the life, then automatically you are free.
When you become free, you do not have to worry about what Vivian says, or what David says, what the businessman says, what the Englishman says, what the English Queen says, what the world says, what the sun says, what the moon says, what nature says. You are free. Free means you are neither, now, a born Paul nor a dead Paul. Free. “Free” is the word we use, now, because Paul is not and death is not. So the word “freedom” has been given to you. Otherwise, there is no necessity of saying “freedom.” It is a sort of awastha, a state. It is shuddh, or pure. Pure is a state. It has nothing to do with anything that is born in time, past, present, or future. If we eliminate time, there is only Eternal Existence, which is free. So you are free.
Still, because life, born, is there, and you are a dream figure, as long as the dream is sustained in existence you have to live life in the dream. So you are in the dream of all these people, and all these people are in your dream. The dream is going on, and the dream is mind. Without mind, you cannot have a dream. All the mind’s expressions, all the figures, are in the dream. They are born and they die, and when the dream is over they are not there. In the same way, in the waking-state dream, the longer dream, figures are there, people are born, people are dying, people are living. But when you are enlightened, they are not there. So you are enlightened.
Paul: Swami, is this dream Krishn’s dream?
Swami ji: Krishn does not exist! He is saying “unborn.” Krishn says, “I am unborn,” so where does he exist? Krishn and Arjun are two characters in a book. And who reads the book? Mind.
Anything the mind reads or makes, the mind says that it is true. The human being is born, so the mind is born. And when you are born, you think that everything is right, everything is true. Whatever the born human being says, sees, and does, the mind knows it is all true. But when that very man sleeps, why is it all not there? Why is it not true then?
Paul: So, no claiming even Krishn!
Swami ji: That’s all. Unborn, that’s all.
Unborn makes sense to you, but you do not want to accept it. That is the human mind. The human mind is opposite; it does not accept.
Ego will never accept the unborn. So as long as you are accepting ego, you are in the world of birth and death. Yet, among you, each one wants to be free. Like Jayanti…Jayanti is a name. What is her name? Jan. It is a name. The name was never there when the child was born, so why is each one clinging to his name? There is no explanation, but then we have to say something about it. No explanation means, it is illusion. So name is illusory. And without form, there is no name, so form is illusory. But you cannot say that form is illusory.
As long as you think form is there, you are under illusion. So we do not say much. We say, remove illusion. That’s all.
Dikpal: Swami ji?
Swami ji: Yes.
Dikpal: Is there not the possibility, or the actuality, that the thought that form is there will be occurring on the level of thinking, but we will not have any sense of the form’s being there?
Swami ji: But then why will the thought of form be made?
Dikpal: It’s only made on the level of the mind.
Swami ji: Then you are ego. The answer is, you are ego.
Dikpal: But isn’t it the identification of the Self with all of that, with form, that is the problem?
Swami ji: No, no, no! Self is never identified. You have to reach there.
It is very easy for you to understand “Self is everything.” Here you are caught. The Self is, alone. You must have heard and read, “Self alone is.” So then, why should you say that Self is everything?
Dikpal: You are saying, then, there is no everything. There is only Self.
Swami ji: Yes. There is no everything. You have to reach that. Otherwise, you will be caught by Guru’s teachings, scriptures’ teachings. Self alone is, but they want to perpetuate that the human being should remain a human being, because there is no way to annihilate, obliterate, the human being. So the scriptures have to compromise and say that Krishn and Arjun are two persons.
When you are in sleep, there are no two persons. But when you read, then they are two persons—because you became a person.
Dikpal: Swami ji, when you say “when you read, then they become persons, because you became a person….”
Swami ji: See, I have made you a human being. “When you read….” In sleep, you never read. Why can’t you say this? “In sleep, I am not there to read.”
Dikpal: In sleep, I don’t read.
Swami ji: That’s all. Why can’t you be convinced, then?
Dikpal: I am convinced that in sleep I don’t read.
Swami ji: And then Krishn and Arjun are not there, and you are not there.
Dikpal: And the reality is that everything is like that.
Swami ji: Reality is not “everything.” Reality is only reality. The moment you say “reality is everything,” then janma and maran are there, birth and death are there, which you do not like. You like reality. So why are you not reality? Why are you not reality—without Dikpal, without birth, without death, without mother, without father?
Dikpal: Then I am the reality.
Swami ji: That’s all.
So here, all reality is sitting. There is nobody who is sitting; there is only reality. Reality is sitting. Nobody. But then someone says, “But reality does not speak.” Then the problem comes, if you say that reality speaks. Immediately I can answer that if reality speaks, there must be a form. So you are caught in form.
You have heard a hundred times, a million times, that reality alone is, Satyam alone is, Sundaram alone is. But you think, Satyam, Sundaram, trees, greenery. Sundaram, flowers, Sundaram, child, Satyam, child, Sundaram, child. Caught! Then remain in that.
Bhakti Nath: Swami ji?
Swami ji: Yes.
Bhakti Nath: We use the words Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram….
Swami ji: Yes, we have to use them because we have to cancel all this which is asatyam, asundaram, and maranam.
Bhakti Nath: Right. But even Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram do not exist?
Swami ji: No. They do not exist.
Bhakti Nath: They do not exist. Because they are putting qualities on the Absolute.
Swami ji: Then why do you think we use them?
Bhakti Nath: Well, I use them.
Swami ji: If you use them, then continue using them. What is it to me?
Bhakti Nath: But I want to escape the trap that makes me….
Swami ji: Then don’t use them!
Bhakti Nath: Yes, then don’t use them. But…..
Swami ji: But what? “But” is a word, w-o-r-d.
Bhakti Nath: I was just going to say, everything is a word, when I speak.
Swami ji: If everything is a word, then it is illusion. Words do not exist. You can see it: a tiny child has nothing to do with words. Why is this child not the Self?
Bhakti Nath: Because the child has no understanding of the Self?
Swami ji: But we have proved that words are not there. So there is no understanding. Why do you speak of understanding? These are just words.
Bhakti Nath: They are just words. So we want to go beyond words, because they are not really there.
Swami ji: How can you go beyond words when you say, “We want to go?” I cannot talk to you! You are…you.
Bhakti Nath: Could I try once more?
Swami ji: No, you cannot. You are finished. Somebody else, who can understand, can try. You will not understand because, for you, words exist, man exists. What is man? A word, m-a-n. As long as man exists, you are under illusion. Science. Without the word “science,” what is science? Without the word “world,” what is the world? Without the word “individual,” what is an individual? Seven billion individuals, they do not exist! Kalpit jeevan jeetay nishidin, “All are living illusion, every day and night.” Shuddh sada mein sat hamara, shuddh sada sat hamara, “Pure Being, Eternal Being, that is our existence.”
Pure Being, that’s all. So the word “pure” is not a word, it is a state. That is the enlightened state. Thank you.
Vivian: Thank you, Swami ji. I wanted to pick up on that point of “pure” not being a word. Over the last few weeks you have brought us into that lap of divinity, but something keeps rising up, and that is the illusion, which is not there. It has been very clear that I need to stay with the Witness Self, to know that I am that Self. And I can only describe it as a reducing….
Swami ji: No, no, no! After that, you cannot describe it further. When you say, “I am That,” “That” means That. Then you are also That. You can say, “I am That,” and to Paul you can say, “You are That.” And then you also can say, “All these are That,” Sarvam khalvidam Brahm. Three vakyas.
Anybody who reached that state, that one is enlightened. Then all description, etc., is under illusion—because “all” are not That. All your businessmen, all your businesspeople, all your buyers, do not know That. So you can deal with the world, and with whatever agyan is there. And then, for you, money is That, no money is That, loss is That, giving is That, taking is That. That alone is. This is the enlightened person. And the person remains, because That and this are there. It will be That and this—but this will change and die; That will not.
This is the only knowledge you have to have. If you can do it, well and good. If not, it is all right. We still have to deal with this. But if you have realized That, it is enough. Thank you.
Vivan: Thank you, Swami ji. Thank you.
Ruhi: Swami ji, I have been loving the songs you have written in the last few days. And that song which you wrote in your sleep, I love the last stanza, in which you wrote, Milna jurna kehetay kehetay, Prabhu say milnay nahin hua (“You keep speaking of meeting, uniting, but the meeting with God has not taken place.”) In the last stanza you wrote, Maran poorv jab milay Guru ji, milna Prabhu say hua hua” (“When, before death, you meet Guru, then the meeting with God has truly taken place.”) Swami ji, I just feel that if death has not taken place, then the meeting with Guru also has not yet taken place. But, Swami ji, what is that maran?
Swami ji: You are asking about maran, so you know.
Ruhi: Can I just ask about what I know of maran? Can I just say that?
Swami ji: Yes, yes.
Ruhi: Where there is no existence of Ruhi, that is maran.
Swami ji: So that is Guru.
Ruhi: But it is not a permanent non-existence of Ruhi. Ruhi spikes up every now and then.
Swami ji: That is correct.
Ruhi: But then the milna, the meeting, with Guru has not happened yet. Guru is permanent, so that milna must be permanent. So it means that I have not met Guru till now.
Swami ji: No, you have not met Guru.
Ruhi: But how will I meet Guru?
Swami ji: You will never!
Ruhi: That is not possible. After meeting you, it is not possible to not meet Guru.
Swami ji: So then you have died. Then you are Guru.
Guru is never born. That is why he is Guru. If you think that Guru is there and you have to meet him, then you are still a person.
Ruhi: So I am thinking that I am somewhere and I have to travel to meet Guru.
Swami ji: Yes, yes.
Ruhi: That’s why I am thinking that maran (death, the death of ahankar) has not happened. But only that which is I…that is Guru.
Swami ji: Yes, that is Guru.
Ruhi: And that is the meaning of maran.
Swami ji: That is maran.
Ruhi: Thank you so much.
Swami ji: The difficulty with a human being is that he just never dies—yet, to convince others, he accepts that “I am dead, I have got Guru.” That is the difficulty.
Abhaya: Thank you so much, Swami ji. Thank you for this opportunity. When you asked if there were questions, I found myself putting my hand up. Then you asked again, and I found myself putting my hand up again. And then I thought, yes, I do have a question. The question is, when I watch you there is so much of me that wants to be you, in every way. Of course, the awareness, the liberation, the freedom, and the way you just live your life, and move, and are. I always see how I’m totally opposite to that. And one of the areas I would really love to improve in is when I see you and I think, oh, Swami ji is taking time and space, and you go to your room—even yesterday, after you had gone to Amrit’s place, you went to your room and you were reading Yog Vashisht. Immediately, you went to read Yog Vashisht. And I find that in so many situations, after I’ve done something and I think, “Now I will go to my room and rest,” I don’t pick up Yog Vashisht and read Yog Vashisht. I might turn on the television.
Swami ji: No, it is all just stories. Yog Vashisht is nothing! If you read Yog Vashisht, your confusion will be much worse than it is now. The stories are stories, they are nothing. And Ram is being befooled! He has just been trapped, that’s all. So better read Gita. Read that too-small Gita that Paul has got.
Abhaya: But my question, Swami ji, along with that, is that in my mechanism, when I think of rest, I don’t think of reading and studying. I would like to change that and know that I can rest with reading scripture, with following that kind of action that you do.
Swami ji: See, you have used the words “my mechanism,” and you forgot. From where did “my mechanism” come, when you are not born? When you are unborn, then why is “mechanism” there?
Abhaya: Because I am very much born. I’m aware that….
Swami ji: Yes. If you are born, then you should suffer.
Abhaya: Yes, I do suffer! And so I would like to get past this, I would like to transform.
Swami ji: No, you cannot. You cannot. You are impressing upon people, “I would like to,” and you are saying, “my mechanism”!
Abhaya: So is it just to know that I am unborn, and there is no I with a mechanism?
Swami ji: No, you are just useless. You are unfit to sit here.
Abhaya: Oh! Okay. Swami ji, I surrender this uselessness and want to just transform into you. There will be no more “my mechanism”! Whatever way you use to transform me, thank you, Swami ji.
Swami ji: See, when I say “freedom” to a human being—it will never come to a human being. But then he says, what is the mechanism with which the human being should be free? He asks that. And if I say that the human being will never have freedom, then he has every right to ask me. There must be some way out. But why should I say anything when you don’t ask? I say that freedom will never come to a human being, and you become quiet. And you are on the trip of freedom! So why don’t you ask?
Abhaya: How not to be a human being?
Swami ji: Yes, how not to be a human being? By not accepting. That accepting is where the human quality still exists. He will leave it by not accepting that he is a human being. That’s all. Then he has accepted the unborn.
Mira: Swami ji?
Swami ji: Yes?
Mira: So everything I see, I just don’t accept it? I don’t accept Mary? And I just know that, through Knowingness?
Swami ji: Yes.
Mira: So it is like neti neti, almost?
Swami ji: Yes.
Mira: And this is still duality, because I am seeing forms?
Swami ji: Yes. We say, duality means illusion.
Mira: And eventually this illusion will be dissolved?
Swami ji: No, illusion will not go away. It is eternal. Two things are eternal: Self is eternal, Eternal Existence, and illusion is eternal. Now, you have a choice. Which one do you want? Do you want this eternal or do you want that eternal?
Mira: That eternal.
Swami ji: That’s all. Your choice. It is for you to choose.
Mira: I am just to know That. So when eyes see, it has got nothing to do with That?
Swami ji: I won’t talk. Because you have started, again, teaching me.
Mira: Oh, I’m sorry! Just That.
Swami ji: Just That. It is your choice. Then why would you choose another, and say, “What about this”?
Mira: So “this” is not even there?
Swami ji: No, no.
Mira: It is just That.
Swami ji: Yesterday Amrit said, Awwal Allah noor upaya. (Swami ji is quoting a verse by the poet Kabir: Awwal Allah noor upaya, kudrat kay sab banday. Ayk noor say sab jag upaja, kaun bhalay kaun manday. “First Allah created light. Then, by His creative power, he made all beings. From the one light, the whole world arose. So who is good and who is bad?”)
What is awwal (“first)? It is not noor (light). It is not Allah, not God, not light. And then the verse says, “From the one light the whole world arose, so who is good and who is bad?” But from where has good and bad come? From where has light come?
Amrit: Light is just pure light.
Swami ji: No, light also does not exist! If light exists, then all exists, good and bad exists. But That is one. That is awwal.
Amrit: First of all!
Swami ji: Yes, first of all, awwal. Then Allah and noor, they are second and third. Awwal is That. So if you are awwal, then you are free. First.
We speak of turiya. Turiya is Allah, or God. But turiyateet (beyond turiya) is You. There are three states, deep sleep, dream, and waking, and so we take the attention of the agyani towards the fourth state, turiya. So he tries to leave the first three, and his intellect reaches the fourth. But the fourth state is also bound, turiya is also bound—though self-realized. It is uninvolved, it remains uninvolved in the world, and it still does everything; yet it is bound. Like Mira—she is free to use anything that she sees, that she knows, that she was, her mother and her father and all those people and things. She uses all of them, but she is uninvolved. Yet she is bound—because she is born. Body.
Even the born body should go away, in your intellect, in your turiyateet state. I call it videha mukti. Shyam Sukh has grasped videha mukti. Ask him, how has he grasped it?
Many of you are there. Each of you is there, when you sleep. I told Uma that if you want to be free, or at least uninvolved, then treat it that you are always in sleep. You will be free. But that is not enough, because sleep is ignorant. Through ignorance, you become blissful; but what is the use of that? Ignorance is bliss, which means sleep is bliss. No. You have to eradicate ego-intellect-mind. That is the whole thing, ahankar. Very simple. Very, very simple. You just have to not have ego-intellect-mind, ahankar. Ahankar-free. Then you are that awwal, first, original.
Awwal is also a word. It is also not there. But how to make you free? We have to use some words, because you are a words-man. That which is called free has got nothing to do with number one or number two or number three or number four or number millions. That awastha is there. And without the human being, it is not possible to know it.
Ritambhara: Without the human being, it is impossible. But without Guru, there is absolutely no possibility for a man, as he has come to know himself. As a man, as a human being, there is no chance to be that unborn state. And, Swami ji, just the way you use words and let us know that Source alone is—it is so valuable, because with you it’s not words. It is that very Guru shabd. Without that, and with the ego mechanism that the human being has picked up—and it’s not really even there!—there wouldn’t be a chance. Today you make it so clear that somehow we still think this body is there. When you spoke to Vivian, at the very end you said to her, “You are That and this.” And then you said, “You are That, and you still deal with this.” But you bring it even further, because my awareness of Guru is that there is no this or that to even deal with. It is so brilliant how you keep coming up with these so-called words to lead us to the space, the awastha.
Swami ji: See, the human being is important because he has the Being who has the knowing power which knows that the world is, and when the world is dissolved, the Being still knows raha (that which remains). Now, you can understand that if the world is dissolved, there must not be any world. So, then, where is the man?
Yet that which is raha is known only by this human being, who is born. So if a person knows raha, then it is said that the person is not, only raha is there. So when I see you all, l see raha raha. And then, when you go to eat something at Valentino’s, I can understand that you are a person, but raha is always raha. Then you can go or not go; raha has got nothing to do with you. This is what I said: until you reach raha, and cancel everything that exists and that you are attached to—till then there is no freedom. So raha is free.
The day before yesterday, I heard people talking about Zachary. They said that when he was three years old, he would say he was “free.” In his vocabulary, “three” was not. But how was there “free”? In all of you, how is there “free”? Even when you are dealing with things and people, you still say, “I am free.” Your children say, “Mama, if you are free, then what about us?” And you say, “That is your concern.” Why? You are not at all worried about them, where they go, what they do, what they think, what they are learning, where they are attached, and where they are not attached. You are free.
We need such a mother. We need such a Guru—free. And then there is no such thing as Guru and disciple—only free. That is why Guru never thinks that you are a disciple. He knows, free. And he wants you, also, to know that Guru is free. Then where are two bodies? Only free. After that, you don’t care. “Don’t care” means you do not become human, the way a human behaves.
A human being gets involved. Like Sukhendra—law. Now, with law, if law is attached to you, you cannot be here meditating. So we have to find out a flaw in law. Freedom in law—flaw! Otherwise, this work will not be done. We have found freedom in law. That is why you got the visa. You got the visa, but you are not governed by the visa. You are free.
Such things, children do not know. They just make their toys and forms and all those things. So if you remain a child, treat it that you are unfit for this. Still, we remind you, under all circumstances, using whatever you know. I accept that which you know.
“Accept” means angeekar. Whatever your body is, I make myself such a body, because I know that these people have bodies, and through bodies, they will know. If the body is not there, then how will I speak this knowledge to you? You never think that you are space, so I take your body into consideration and then speak, becoming a body.
But it has happened to me—space. Now, if it has happened to me—space—it can happen to you also—space. When you are space, then who bothers for one tree? You just cut it. And they say, “No no! Environment, environment, environment!” What environment? The trees were never there. Not a single grass blade was there. But man is attached to the idea of death. And he does not want to die, because if he dies then he cannot get married, he cannot use his senses, he cannot eat food, he cannot have jewels, he cannot have saris, he cannot have a three-piece suit. No tomato, no potato, no chips, no chai!
So as long as the dream is going on, you have to be in the dream. That’s all. And this is your understanding: “The dream does not exist.” How can you say that the dream exists and the dream does not exist? You are saying with one tongue, “dream exists” and “dream does not exist.” So you must be free!
Next? Aatma Shakti is coming.
Aatma Shakti: Thank you so much, Swami ji. It is just so thrilling to hear you. The thing that you have said that somehow helped me was when you said that all the problems are due to Atma Shakti, and that the illusion is Atma Shakti. Somehow, that is relaxing, because then there is a kind of deep sleep and the excitement of Atma Shakti at the same time.
Last night, on the video, you said that the Knower is always in the sleep of peace, or in the peace of sleep. And then, on the other hand, there is the fact that, as you say, there is the appearance of this body, which you take on in order to speak about that Knower. So then that Shakti is not inconsistent with deep sleep. It is there as deep sleep, the Atma Shakti. And that is Guru ji. So jai jai Guru ji!
Swami ji: Thank you.