Milan: … As I am speaking, I am finding that these are all the things my mind is concluding. But one moment with you and everything I just said is completely irrelevant. So I am describing the process of a mind that thinks it exists, but being with you I see that it doesn’t. I tremendously value your presence!
Swamiji: It is everybody’s experience that when one sees a dream, every figure, scene, and situation of the dream, along with the dreamer, are relevant for the dreamer. Right? If the dreamer is describing something, giving a lecture, or watching dream scenes (which everybody has more or less seen), then in that dream the dream figures, dream world, and dream body are relevant; so too, the pain, suffering, and sorrow, as well as the joy and pleasure, are also relevant. That is the dream state. But the moment the person wakes up, they are not relevant. Likewise, the way you had been thinking—all your thoughts and descriptions—had been relevant, but the moment you came over here, it seems irrelevant to you. Right?
What happened? This is what a human being has to watch, because he has the ability to know it. What is it with him that he himself is the dreamer, and that is why he feels, “I am dreaming all this—and it is right,” yet when he wakes up he is quiet? He turns on the light, and he is still shivering if has seen a nightmare, or he feels joy if he was married in the dream. He says, “What is that?!” [Laughter] That is part of our study, which we as human beings can do. It doesn’t matter whether you are a person, a boy or a girl, somebody’s relation such as a wife, husband, father, or mother; it doesn’t matter whether you are a professional, if you are working at your duty anywhere, or if you went to Indonesia where you are just getting out of the rubble after the tsunami. Whatever your situation is, it is not a consideration for you or for us.
The main consideration for us is why when we wake up everything is relevant. We need an answer—because you think everything is relevant. When you did not wake up, rather you were in deep sleep, even dream figures were not relevant for you. Have you ever found your Self? Are you a dreamer body? Or are you a wakeful body? Or are you a sleeper sleeping in deep sleep where you are a body? This has not been examined by a human being, so he could not attain the result of such examination, inquiry, or observation.
Therefore, we have to observe this now, at least today. Why it is that your ideas, thoughts, things, illusions, and disillusions were all relevant, and why in a minute did they become irrelevant? You may not figure it out, but you can still understand it, and then you can figure it out and examine it. It is because your nerve in the waking state has produced the fourth state [in contrast to the waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states of consciousness]. It is not a dream, it is here in the waking state. In the waking state, what happened now that your eyes cannot see and your mind cannot know? You have no answer for this.
You said, “I feel it was all irrelevant,” but you do not know what happened. It is for me to be aware enough to let you know that you, with your nerve which gives you the waking state consciousness, slipped into the fourth state, or made the flower of the fourth state blossom. Then all three states and all your past life became irrelevant. You lived it as a dream, and you know it; even if you know it, you woke up, so it is all irrelevant. In the fourth state, it will all be irrelevant.
Still, with this body you have to do the same things as you are doing. Why? You have the same body, mind, eyes, and duality, the same profession and relations, the same pain and suffering. But now you are in the fourth state, and the fourth state is declaring that all that is irrelevant. Therefore, your joys are irrelevant, your memories are irrelevant, and their pain and suffering is irrelevant. You can describe them, as a writer describes in a novel, but for a writer the whole novel is irrelevant. It will be relevant to others, who will be just befooled by it.
So in the fourth state, everything that you now say is relevant will all be irrelevant. If you cannot know this, then you will know it at the time of death. At the time of death, in that moment before you die, you will actually be disillusioned, that all is irrelevant about which you were saying, “These are my parents, this is my door, my house, and my property, my bank account and my land, my gain and my loss. This is my food, which I have put in bags, all the wheat and corn. And these are the bags into which I have put my thoughts as a doctor, as a patient, as a family member.” About all the thoughts you put into your bags, like corn and wheat—at the time of death Uncle Gaum [Dan’s uncle who was a doctor] said, “They are all zero!” [Laughter]
You are aware as a human being, so why could you not know this fact now? Why do you not say now that they are irrelevant? Because people will say you are mad, that you are saying this and this and this, and now you say it is all irrelevant! No. That’s why language is there. That day I spoke to Joya. She said, “I’m not there.” How is it you are not there? If you say are there and not here, you are still there. When here-you and there-you are not, that is the fourth state.
This is the work. At any time, when it happens to anybody, he will know it—and he will live this so-called irrelevant life much better. [Laughter] Right? He will be generous enough, he will be good enough, he will use his things and all that he has—he has to use them much before he dies—or he can give this to this one, that to that one. It is just nothing! When at this time you know everything is irrelevant, why should you not look like you are relevant? If you are a wife of someone, you say to him, “My dear husband.” If a husband has a wife he says, “Well, my dear wife”—or my dear father, my dear brother. Why can’t you say this? You can say, “I am a son. This is my duty.”
Your duty is over, because you have done everything. Now you don’t expect that a son should be like his father, and the son also does not expect that Father should change to my views. No. You do not need anyone favouring your thinking, or that they should be like this. Such as yesterday Vistar said, “He should be like this, and then I can do it.” No. He will be like that, he cannot be in favour of your thought. Still your duty is there, that’s all. So do your duty, because you are aware. You are aware of the fact that all is irrelevant. If all is irrelevant, why should it not be relevant in the eyes of those people who think it is relevant?!
Then you don’t say, “It is all irrelevant. When you die you will repent. Then you will do this. Write your will over here.” Just nothing! Whatever happens, you are there—forever free! That is how you can view it. But if you cannot view it, it is not your mistake—because your nerve is not open, so you are in the waking state. In the waking state, there are only the rules and regulations written in scriptures, or which elders have said. They say, “Don’t hurt anybody,” and you don’t hurt anyone; they say, “Don’t cheat anybody,” and you don’t cheat anyone. You serve everybody. Whoever comes before you, you are serving. You do not use the words, “I am somebody who has nothing to do with you.” Many people say, “I don’t know you, yet I welcome you.” Such a rotten language you have heard! [Laughter] But you cannot learn this, because now you really cannot change old parrots! [Laughter]
But at least you can hear. The very hearing means you are changing, or you are getting transformed. Who is getting transformed? That one who is never there yet assumes “I am there.” That is your difficulty, or problem—and it is for everyone, not just one person. It is never there, yet you record it. You examine and observe that in deep sleep your I-body is never there, but your Lord of the body, Lord of thinking, Lord of the mind and all, that Space, is there. That Space is not seen with these charm chakshu, these eyes of leather. Yet you think anything that is true is only what you see with your eyes. That is what the senses are. Like Manu [a small child] is there. He will slowly become all what Ravi, Dan, and Dunn are. It is really too bad, but what can you do? [Laughter]
For all human beings, without a Guru there is a great difficulty. They cannot deal with their mums. If Guru is there and he tells you how to deal with your mum, you will become like Rekha. Rekha has no problem with her mum. Why? Because whatever Guru says, she listens to. What does Guru say? Guru says, “Rekha, you must know you were never born. Hold this. Since you were never born, therefore your mother was also not born.” But now your mind says, “I am born and that is my mother.” You must know your mind says this in the dream also. In the dream also you are a daughter, he is a father, and she is a mother. That father and mother have no bones over there, they have no legs, yet they fly in the air. The dreamer also flies. He is also born in the dream and dies in the dream. If your mind, or you, does this in the dream and then you wake up, then that was not of bones, skin, or blood. Check, are you not the same person that was real, yet now you say that was not real? And you still say this is real! It’s the same dream.
This way you hear—not only Rekha, all of you hear the same thing. Rekha is just a name, and I do not want to get anyone name-identified, as he will immediately say, “What’s it to you? It’s my problem.” [Laughter] It doesn’t matter. I never think, “What’s it to me?” and “What’s it to you?” because in the dream I and you are not there. They are imagination. Imagination cannot be a body, it is imagination. Shiv Nath knows it. Dikpal also knows the ring cannot be there, the ring is imagination—it is gold. But what can you do when you see the ring? When you still have agyan (ignorance of the Self), how can you say it is gold? You say, “Well, it is a ring.” That shows that agyan is so strong that it cannot be washed off, neither by scriptures nor by Guru, unless you yourself cooperate and examine it, and it is dridh abhyas (firm practice). Sa tu dirghakalanairantaryasatkarasevito dridhabhoomih. (The wavering mind space becomes stable if one practices continuously, for a long time, and with great respect for his own effort. …) [Patanjali Yog Sutras 1:14] Then it becomes dridhabhoomih, the sense that “I am that which was not a boney structure in the dream, and I am still that Knower, which is not a boney structure now.”
But it is not to be spoken to your mother or father that “I am not Rekha,” or “I am not your son,” as they cannot be in favour of your thought. Nobody else can be in favour of your thinking, yet everybody thinks, “Why are they like that? They should be the way I think.” You think wrong, so the whole world should be the way you think! [Laughter] Watch! We can examine it, but it is for you to analyse, examine, and conclude. I can only say to you that what you want will happen—because you are that Atma, that Pure Consciousness, which has already happened as this. It thought and it became this, so it is still there. But now that very being, which is a part of the whole, or the knower, is the very Infinite, but it has accepted Milan-body and has been caught, or glued to the body. So your knower is this, which you call “I.” And you never examine that I is not your tongue, teeth, intestines, or stomach—nowhere is there I—not your brain, heart, or ears. There is no I. But you have made that “I am this.”
Due to this mistake, everything is relevant to you. To the one who knows this and you died, for him it is not relevant; or for the person who died and you are alive, it is also not relevant. But you think this is not going to happen. Millions of years passed and everybody is convinced the body is nature, that bodies are the combination of earth, water, and the elements, and they will all dissolve. But it has been given a hit [released] from there, wherever it has been, and, like an arrow, it is going on. It is your age. Without age, the arrow will not fall. You think you will die. That is wrong. You think you are not already free and are only alive. That is also wrong. For this mistake, you are going to be punished by the punishment of birth and death, and birth and death, and birth and death, and its wheel, and you will never be out of it. Only for this mistake.
So correct this mistake at this time and sleep happily. Dream and wake up happily. Deal with everything, do all kinds of work and business, and just stop in the night. Be happy. Again get up, and eat and drink. Be happy. Because that which is to be eaten is necessary, it is not a desire that will not be fulfilled. Your desire for food, or to remove hunger, will be satisfied. But your desire to buy a helicopter will take time. [Laughter] Right? And you will not be satisfied—it is just possible you will die without having fulfilled it. [Laughter] So that desire is unreal. Unreal desires will never be fulfilled.
Therefore, you must understand what you are. When nature belongs to nature, not only will you give to nature what is nature when you die, give it now to nature. That is surrender. And give yourself to that whose part you are, whose knower you are of Knowingness. Then you will give this to that. That is samarpan, surrender. You have surrendered this self-knower to that who is Infinite, you put that in the lap of the Infinite. And this nature, the body, you should put in the lap of infinite nature, as it is infinite nature. You are free. Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah (May all on earth be blessed). That is why we say everybody should have kalyan, everybody should have well-being. You deserve that. You have reached there, you are feeling it, and you are knowing it.
Only in some of the persons it is not. Then don’t copy them. Help them evolve. They will come to you. You will come to know immediately that they really do not know. Like her father, he’ll talk to you, and in that talk he has not to use words and figures and give the meanings of his talk. By the very sound, you will come to know “That is not really all right.” Then it is not his duty or their duty, it is the work of an aware person. He does not boast of his awareness and say, “I am free, I have chosen a right path. I have worked very hard and you didn’t, therefore you are suffering, and you will suffer if you don’t do it.” There is nothing to tell people about the great placidity that will be around you. Everybody will love you because you love everyone, you help everyone with whatever can be done, because you know, “This is it!”
This way, it is surrender. So surrender is of this imaginary I as the body and the body as I. You have a test, an examination, you have the experimenting being over here, with which you can see this body is not I. But everybody is firmly established that it is I. I just speak this, I do not mean to ask you why you are firmly established. Remain established. If your work goes on with that, do it, because the whole world is like that. If you are not firmly established that “I am knowledgeable,” then everybody will say you are stupid. It is just like that.
You have come to know what I am saying. The rest depends on you. When you ask, I’ll tell you. Otherwise, for me you are realized. No problem, neither for you nor for me. You can check: every morning that you get up, you will know where your I is. Is your I infinite? Or is your I glued to the finite body, to nature? If it is nature, then nature will have a relation. Space has no relation. You have seen the space of a jug—does it have a relation with the jug? The space of a house—does it have any relation with the walls so that because they are burnt the space is burnt? No. That is where you get the information. But you must know that you are so rigidly established in your body that you merely say with your words, “I am the Space.” You are not the Space, you are not recognizing it. That is why everything is irrelevant.
That is where Me is. Unless you know that Me, you will be caught in the manifestation, which is valuable, which is natural. Until death, it will happen. There is no other power on earth that can relieve you of the trouble or indecision other than you. You will examine being free. But when you are not free, at that time you will hear from Guru, “Look folks, you have come—but what do you want?” You will know. That is surrender. Surrender your quietness. Surrender your possession of your body and mind, and your knowledge that “I’m like that.” You have to tell Guru openly that this is where I am. If you do not tell a doctor what your symptoms are, how will you get medicine? He will give you if he’s nice. You will open your eyes and he will say, “They are jaundiced, so I’ll give you this.” At that time you don’t have to say. But there are some diseases which are so deep rooted, and there for ages. Even from past incarnations they are coming to your mind.
The main thing is you are not aware of your Self. Incarnation after incarnation, this cancer goes on. You are a sir who knows, can I? [Laughter] I-cancer. “Can I? How?” That is where values will remain there, but they do not belong to you. Flowers are there, they are valuable, but they are not grown in your stomach. That will happen to you. You will remain uninvolved and you will be helping people, you will do this thing and that thing, you will do all that.
Guru will never say you should be ousted from your rigidity. [Laughter] No. That is not what Guru’s role is. Guru’s role is just to tell you by telling you the story of somebody else’s father, not your own father. He’s not here, so I spoke. … That is the trouble: body-consciousness. If you do not surrender that, then what is surrender? Body-consciousness means you are glued to the body, and you should know you are the Space. Then why do you keep this rigidity that you are glued to the body? Just know, “Oh! Space. Space am I!” You became Guru.
The current of the river. You see the fluidity of the river water, but you never see the current. The current is leading the river right up to the ocean, but it is invisible. So your body, which will go to the cremation ground, is seen. But the current, which is leading you always, has nothing to do with it. That is Guru Current. But people are afraid of Guru Current, thinking that “If I am touched, I will die.” They think Guru Current is like electricity. [Laughter] That is where your freedom is: You have to surrender to the freedom of your own.