Swamiji: Today is the day of choice. Yes.
Priyam: Swamiji, yesterday you said that when you speak something happens, but Truth does not come. Every day when I hear you speak, or even just see you, something does happen by your presence. I would like you to explain what that is, if you say that Truth doesn’t come. I don’t understand.
Swamiji: Very nice. If you go to a tailor’s shop and check a coat, something happens to you that the coat comes to you. When you see Lou, Lou comes to you. When you hear Dikpal, Dikpal comes to you. When you eat, food comes to you. When Guru speaks, his words come to you. So where is the Truth that comes to you?
Priyam: It seems like something happens. I would call that the Truth, because it is totally different than…
Swamiji: When something happens, then it has nothing to do with all human beings and all the scenes of human beings—then the Truth comes. That is the Truth that comes, which is “something happens.” But if you interpret it as something else other than the Truth, then Truth never comes—because you, as a human being, have to conclude everything that a human being concludes.
Priyam: But that has never worked, Swamiji.
Swamiji: That is why it is not working. So you are correct. Your understanding is that the Truth has not come to you, although something happens. Change happens—which means if I talk, Dikpal does not come to you. When I talk, I come to you. But you see me as the one who is ninety-two years old and changing fast, so the Truth does not come. And I am talking about the Unchanging all the time. But you are hearing being a changing person, only changing. Every sense is changing, and you hear me and think that something happens. “Something happens” means that words happen, words come to you, as when Reta speaks, Reta’s words come to you. So nothing happens—only there is a change that other persons have not come to you, a person who is speaking comes to you.
Priyam: So in hearing you, Swamiji, it is not that something happens, it is that that which I thought happened, which is the human condition, begins to become undone.
Swamiji: Yes, it becomes undone, but it becomes only sixty percent undone, forty percent remains. That which you are calling “happened,” that something happens, is nothing but your own conclusion—and you are already a person.
Priyam: But it is something different than being a person. That is why I love when you speak.
Swamiji: You have to love it, because you do not like persons. Persons are going to die, so why would you like a person? No person who is going to die you would like. All persons are going to die, therefore you do not like persons—including you.
Priyam: When I hear you say I don’t like, it is because that which is temporary has never given me what I want.
Swamiji: Yes. Then you have to understand that if what is temporary does not give you what you want—and everything is temporary—then you have to know what to do. I say that you don’t understand. I say sarva tyag, or renounce all. For you all means these are all [he points to the audience], and you renounce them, but not this [he points to Priyam]. [Laughter] Or you renounce other things, trees and all those things, but not this. And without you, you cannot know the all.
Priyam: But Swamiji, I know with this I cannot renounce this. Not by using this.
Swamiji: No, no. So the word “renounce” will not work for you. Still something has to work, because you are here and I am speaking to you, and you have to listen to me. But you listen to yourself, so it does not happen. I don’t say to you to do sarva tyag, because that will be more complicated. You will start giving up your house, the road, your car, your wife, children, daddy and mommy, and sometimes you will even try to commit suicide in order to give up. Sarva tyag will mean this to your understanding—which I do not mean! I mean sarva tyag will be automatic if you know your Self as unchanging. This you can make efforts for. What is unchanging in you?
Priyam: That which is not this, not the mind.
Swamiji: That’s all. So then you have to know the Unchanging, and sarva tyag will be gone.
Priyam: Beautiful. Thank you Swamiji. …
Shiv Nath: Swamiji, what is becoming clear is that to hear you, to really hear you, the sense that I has anything to do with the body and mind has to be seen as completely illusion or imagination.
Swamiji: Clear. But why did you make illusion or imagination?
Shiv Nath: I guess that is the residual sense that illusion has some reality to it.
Swamiji: Then give it up.
Shiv Nath: So when you say, and I love it when you do say it, that your message is that I do not exist as the individual I thought, what prevents me from accepting this fully?
Swamiji: The very knowledge that you exist, that power prevents you.
Shiv Nath: And the dissolution of that preventing power will be how?
Swamiji: It will be the key. I am always talking or listening to a human being having realized that he does not exist. So I am okay. But you think, your person thinks, your power thinks, or, whatever is there, that thinking is saying that you exist, it is saying, “I am Shiv Nath.”
Shiv Nath: So Swamiji, knowing that thinking has nothing to do with Me, I, Pure, and every time thinking comes it is as if it is somebody else’s thinking, will that be…
Swamiji: Not listened to.
Shiv Nath: Yes, not listening to that thinking, that will be the removal of the power that confirms that I am a body and a mind. When you say, “You do not exist,” you bring my attention to that Being who doesn’t listen to the thoughts and sense that I am a body and mind.
Swamiji: Yes, he doesn’t listen. Then that Being, only that Being, exists. But that Being is not seen. Your side is seeing, that the eyes exist, whereas that Being is not being seen with the eyes.
Shiv Nath: So that which the eyes see has nothing to do with Me.
Swamiji: Yes, nothing. Anything which the eyes see, taken altogether, has nothing to do with you. You are unchanging and everything is changing. Now I say, to give you a concession, you can be either on that side or this. You think that either you are unchanging, or you remain tuned in to the changing. It is your choice. I do not suppress you.
Shiv Nath: Yes. But when you say, “a concession,” that indicates to me there is only one side. Because if I choose changing…
Swamiji: That’s all. Guru gives no concession. But he still uses the words of sweetness. All the time he is saying that which you call you is not you. You are ever present, unchanging. If the Unchanging is realized—not using your mind—then the Unchanging realizes the Unchanging. This is the maximum communication that I can do. When you ask further, then I say, “Meditate.” This is not being immediately known by you. Immediately what comes is that the ego-intellect-mind is being used to know the Unchanging. So you are not sure and certain, because the ego-intellect-mind will never know it—it is the darkness against the Light. Only Light will know Light, darkness will not know it.
Shiv Nath: Thank you, Swamiji. That is the maximum that the Unchanging will know the Unchanging. I am just so thankful you are able to say it so clearly and with so much conviction and truth.
Akash: … One time you said in meditation you just park your ahankar (individual I-sense), [laughter] but the car is still there. That car is all the belief that the world is real and I am real, and the constant mix [of the Knower with the body and ego-intellect-mind]. … I have no question left, but I’m also not getting it a hundred percent. My only question would be, Could you help me in giving up the whole thing, the whole belief in the thought being real, of the ego-intellect-mind being real?
Swamiji: Your analysis, your discrimination, is all right. But now you have to know that you have used the words “giving up.” But how would you give it up?
Akash: It is only by knowing it does not exist.
Swamiji: You have come to know that darkness is to be given up. But how would you give up darkness?
Akash: By putting on the light.
Swamiji: This cannot be given up unless the Light arises in you. Light is not coming from your house or camera, from a situation, a person, or the sun. Light is coming from what? You do not know. Light is coming from Guru. But you do not know Guru, because he is under the sun, as you are. Guru is introducing himself, “I am unborn. I am unchanging. I am undying.” But you are using the vehicle, the whole body, which is in darkness. Through darkness, Light will not be known. Guru is saying that Light is ever present in you. That Light your darkness does not know. You are using the system, which is total darkness. It will give a little light when you will be burnt. [Laughter] But that too finishes—it is fire, or the sun. So as long as that Light has not arisen, you think it is not there. I am saying you are the Light, but you do not listen. You have been taught, “I am the darkness. I am a person to die.” The one who dies is not Eternal Light.
But you want and expect me to answer, “You let me know where it exists?” I say, “It exists prior to your thinking. That Light is you.” But that you don’t accept. You accept your name, your form, your darkness, everything that is you. So for you That is darkness, and your body, your mind, your intellect, your seeing, your eyes are light. I am saying you are Light. Unless you change the meaning or view of yours and listen to me, you will not know that which is you in this body. I, for convenience sake, said that me is here [he says, pointing] and you are there. You, for your convenience sake, said that me is there and you are here. So me and you are not two, they are just two words that are there. You think that is Light. Wherever two are, that is not Light. If you say one and two, that is also not Light. Wherever two does not remain, that is Light.
Now you can check yourself, using your mental, meagre awareness. It is called half awareness, so it is mental. You can take your time and try to know where the Light is. Or does Light belong to your sun? But where is you, or where is me? If you do not do this, you will never know it—but by questioning, you will come to know. Start from your own body’s view. Is Light nails? Immediately the answer will come, No. Light will speak. Are knees Light? The answer will come, No. Are eyes your neck? The answer will come, No. Are eyes your hair? The answer will come, No. Why would you think the eyes are somewhere else? Your Light is so near you, so close to you, but because of a preventing power—the whole body, the avaran, the cover—it is not allowed.
Akash: Swamiji, I know it, when you speak, that Pure is first. Without Pure, without the Light, nothing is happening. But the Pure itself knows it.
Swamiji: Yes. So that Pure should not be identified with your body, world and things. Guru says this, and I continue saying it. But you think, “Oh, it is just saying. But let me identify.” Then you always identify with the darkness, yet you impress upon me, “I know the Light,” just because I said. The moment you are aware that Awareness is the Knower, let man die. Because the whole darkness—man—is useless. That is why we wish that Guru should remain alive. You think “Guru should remain alive” means the body should remain alive. I daily say, “I am ninety-two years old, so I am speaking,” and you are convinced as if I am ninety-two years old. And when I say, “I am Unborn,” you also don’t understand this. You only understand ninety-two years. Because that is the darkness that has come to you from the very childhood. Name is a darkness. Form is a darkness. When I say “darkness” you hear it and think it is not the Light. Darkness has nothing to do with the darkness of the night. Darkness is wrong understanding coming from people, so the little child became that darkness. Thus, the whole human being is darkness. For darkness to be removed, darkness has not to be accepted—that is the removal. Whatever remains is your Light. Hear it, and try again to work it out. Thank you.
Akash: Thank you, Swamiji.
Sameepta: I so much appreciate that you shine the light on the human being so I can see where the ahankar and mind sit. The longer I sit in front of you, the freer of that I become. It is not even I…
Swamiji: If it is not I, why are you using “I”?
Sameepta: Well, because I am a form sitting in front of you and I am saying it from this side.
Swamiji: How did you become a form when you were a child and she did not know form?
Sameepta: I became a form by accepting so much that was put on me.
Swamiji: That is the only non-mistake. You didn’t commit the mistake—you are helpless. The body is born and the body had to accept whatever they said. So there is no mistake in you. But now, if you want to be the Light, remove all the acceptance. Whatever you have accepted, remove it, which means don’t accept it.
Sameepta: That is my greatest wish, to be free.
Swamiji: Because a wish has also been accepted. A wish is nowhere! Again, this is a human being. When the wish is to be free from darkness, then you have to accept the Light. When a wish is there, the wish will not work. The way you have accepted every darkness, you have to accept Me, Guru’s words, who says you are Pure Free Forever. Why don’t you accept it?
Sameepta: I accept.
Swamiji: Then why do you wish for it?
Sameepta: Because the mind keeps coming back and saying, “It’s not yet.”
Swamiji: The darkness keeps coming back, that’s all. If through darkness a man is trying to realize the Light, it will never happen. Let the sun shine, darkness will automatically go. But you don’t want to accept you are the sun, or you are the Light; or, with another word, you are the Knower; or, with another word, you are Awareness. Check. The very human being is made to remain in darkness and die and end. I daily say, “Why do you accept the birth of a human being? If you do, then why don’t you accept the death of a human being?” But you don’t hear this, because the body is made like that. Those who have come here want freedom from the born body and also think, “The body should remain, and then I will have freedom through it”!
Gangesh: … It seems that darkness is duality and Light is no duality, or Oneness. So this division in between, that I want your realization, should dissolve and then only realization is there.
Swamiji: You reached that plateau of awareness, Pure Free Forever. But the body—which is the conglomeration of all that which you have heard, seen, smelled, breathed in, tasted, touched, and did all those things, and which your body with senses then accumulated—is not to be used. That is accumulated facts, figures, forms, and sounds. But you have reached—not you, rather, the Knower has known the Knower. You, by your practice of knowing everything because of the senses or the mind, is gone. The Knower is the Knower. The Knower knows the Knower. Nobody else, nothing else, not your body as a whole can know the Knower. If you think, “I can know it,” that Gil can know it, you will never know the Knower. Guru says the Knower is ever present, and that is you. So you have to drop this you as a whole, and you are the Knower. [He snaps his fingers.] You have to work on it. If you do not do this practice, if you do not make efforts, you will never get it. You have come to know, but you have to check now where the Knower loses the Knower and becomes the mind. Because of the body, the Knower is the body. This is where you have to reach the Knower, who should not associate with the body-knower. That’s all. Thank you.
This will go on unending. Many times I say that for a human being there is no way out but to be the Knower, because only the Knower can be the Knower. The Knower, as a human being, is associating with the mind and senses, which he has been taught. A child never knew it—he was the Knower. But all the people getting together in the space where the Knower inhabited, everybody made him a form-knower, and then he uses that form-knower for everything. You cannot copy all the people the world over. Whatever millions of people say, you cannot copy now; if you are copying yourself, then you are all the millions of people. So you should not copy you, you should copy the Knower. The Knower is Guru—who speaks, and then you can hear the Knower. Otherwise, the Knower never speaks.
When Guru speaks of the Knower, never conclude that Guru is born, Guru is living, and Guru is dying. Guru is ever-present Knower. If anybody among you knows this, then it is Guru. From the very beginning when all of you came, I decided to make you Guru. If you are not becoming Guru, not listening, then whatever your choice is, whatever you remain, that is your choice. Guru is Knower. Knower is Guru. And now, your mind has to confirm it. So you put the mind into deep sleep, a garage. Then, with the same habit, you put the mind or intellect in the body into the meditation state. But the mind remains. Then you can understand, the mind should not be there; then a human being should not be there. That is why I recommended meditation. Do it. Close your eyes. At least there is a chance for your mind to conclude, “This is not what the mind knows.” The mind will go around here and there, it will be sitting in the garage, but it will not know. The mind knows only the mind is. … [Meditation]
Let me be sincere with sincere people, who are all making efforts in their lives to be, according to their thought, undying, and who do not like to change with whatever they see. You are very sincere in your efforts, and I appreciate you. You have heard all the people, and they all talked about things, forms, and persons, about relative things, thoughts, and ideas, which are all changing. But let me also say, “You are unchanging!” If you hear those persons who are speaking of the changing and believe in everything that changes, I expect that you are sincere enough, faithful enough, that when I say you are unchanging, Pure Free Forever, you will understand. Maybe not today, because you cannot give up all the habits you have made up to this time—all the things people have said to you and you have learned, that “This is good, so I should have it. This is not good, so I should not have it,” and all such ideas. This means you have that discrimination by which one day, or today, you will come to grasp that the unchanging, ever-eternally present exists.
When two forms, which are viewed with the sense of duality, are abandoned or renounced, it is not that two forms are gone, rather the sense of duality is gone through which two forms were known. If the sense of duality is gone, then we do not include forms. We reach that Space which is Guru Satta (Existence) everywhere. “Everywhere” we say for a human being to hear, because a human being only hears about this corner, that corner, this direction, that direction—he does not know everywhere, because everywhere has no direction. A human being has grown only with the direction that leads him towards a human being. A child, when becoming a human being, followed the direction of people who made him a human being. But in a child’s case, it appears that when he speaks there is just delight, which has no direction.
Delight is called everywhereness. Even an ant is delighted when it gets burphee (an Indian sweet). Delight is not an ant or burphee, it is that which does not fall in the category of even a corner or a place that an atom occupies. That everywhere is totally pure. Anything will be smoky if you burn it, but everywhere is neither blue sky nor red sky, neither rain nor falling, not dirt nor an airplane, not Kullu or Delhi, not Sita or Veer. These are two names of forms. But that which is everywhereness, delight, has no name and no form.
All of you are very sincerely growing by following the path of everywhereness, which is called Guru Satta, Guru Existence. All existences that you know change. The existence that is occupied by an ant and occupied by an elephant changes. The earth that occupies the space changes. The sky that is occupying place changes. Thus, what a great difficulty there is for a human being who is without Guru, if Guru does not come as the Light which does not occupy any corner. The sun occupies a corner, sunlight occupies the world. But that Light which is you is everywhereness. Go anywhere and call anybody you—a leaf is you, a flower is you, a fruit is you, a person is you, a carpet is you, anything is you. That means everywhereness must be you. But because of the human senses people conclude you occupy a chair, a seat, a body. That is why when all that changes, as I have spoken to you, when everything is changing, you became changeful. But when you come in front of Guru he says, “Don’t accept any kind of change or the place that change occupies. You are unchanging forever and everywhere just the same.” Thank you very much. You are most welcome.
Thus watch, going and coming is not everywhereness. Going goes with you, coming comes with you, and we, according to the senses, know only coming and going. The morning goes away when you close the eyes in the evening, and when you wake up, sleep goes away. When a dream comes, then sleep and the waking state go away, including all the forms that are known by the help of the waking state. That means nobody can define Everywhere Guru Consciousness, which is beyond the description of space here, there, and everywhere. It is beyond everywhereness. There is you, who is that. So use your intellect to bring that Light which is everywhereness, or, in other words, is nowhere. That is Truth, that is Love, that is Knowledge. If you hear me, then you are Gyan Praym (Knowledge Love). And that is Shyam. Then your attachment to the body and world will automatically fall away, or be renounced. That is why just be tuned into Knowledge and Love, Gyan and Praym, and Shyam. Shyam Gyan Praym is one existence, unchanging. All the states of existence change. So it is your choice—be either that side or this side!
