Gaurav: … Certainly, the answer to all our human questions is for us to know we are unborn. But it is a process. I see in this process, system, or laboratory, I still have a hard time with two areas of identification: work and family. … Where it pinches me sometimes is in the area of letting people down, or at least in having the sense I have let someone down, and that is still a point of identification. I was wondering if you could help me navigate through it?
Swamiji: Work and family both are not. [Laughter] Everybody knows it, but everybody is born so he is called ‘”every-body.” Before one is born, he is not called a body—he has no family and he does not work. [Laughter] You know this truth. Yet, this knower which knows the truth is deceptive, so even though it knows the truth, you don’t believe it. Imagination, the mind, or illusion is deceptive and is called maya. When you were not born, deception, imagination, illusion were not there. Thus, with the knowledge of being born, your difficulty, complication, or illusion will never be removed. As many of you are human beings who are working for freedom, you do not know freedom because you have not been informed where it is. Thus, freedom is your own imagination, or your imaginative idea.
The ego-intellect-mind is not three, they are one deception, and that deception is a human being. As long as a human being is a human being, he will be work-ridden—which was never there when he was not born; and he will be family-ridden—which was never there when he was not born. Thus, on this level which you call a born human being, there is no answer, no solution. Each day, you sleep and wake up. The moment you wake up, you are in deception, for deception or illusion, as your body, is real for you, which you call scientific, and never call Gyan Vigyan (the science of knowledge of the Self), or unborn. Here, each person is visible. Why? He is born. So if you remain a human being, you should give up the idea of freedom. It will never come. Try to find a solution, a hundred years will pass, but there will be no solution.
There must be some cause for this that you can find out, whereas to clap there is no cause. For you, you are an effect and your mother and father are the cause, and you can’t get out of it. Yes, you can get out of it, but you think it is when somebody dies. General Radley-Walters, a big war hero, died. Explain. He is free. He will never remember that he fought a war, or he had a family, or he was working. Therefore, Guru is not known by anybody. I assume to be a Guru because you made this seat and I occupied it. Nobody else can occupy it, because nobody would like to have your votes. [Laughter] …
Gaurav: Swamiji, I am here because that is what I want—to be free and not bound by the sense of being a human being. But you had also mentioned on several occasions that you only have the awareness that has been developed up until this time. I am now hoping to expand that awareness so that the idea of freedom can become a reality.
Swamiji: Yes, expansion is that there is only Pure Free Forever, everlasting You or Me, which is unborn, unchanging, undying. This is possible for you, because you have come to know that the sun’s rays create an imagination or deception in a human being that there is water in the desert. An imagination is also created when people are born through marriage, that marriage is real, although in Atma, in Self, in Unborn, there is no marriage. Both are imagination—in the desert and in the family— and that is what a human being is trained into. As soon as he is trained, nobody said to him, “You were not there. You just landed, and you do not know from where. I too, as your mother, do not know from where you came, who made you, and how you are made similar to that of other children and different from every child.” So you can know there is absolutely no answer as long as you think you are born. You have the power to know that many people died, and now you know they were not born—otherwise, why did they die? They should have remained. So in satsang your intellect may be expanded or purified to the extent that you can know your own faith which says you are unborn. The job is done. …
Sukh and dukh, happiness and unhappiness, are the daily experience of everyone, and to that experience he began to call anubhav, whereas Anubhav is unborn. All our experiences are experiences—they are imagination. Thus, there is no way for anybody to have an answer except for you to have the power to know, and to have faith, or to have belief in your faith, that you were not there. I can ask him, and he is very aware person, let me know, did your Knower not say that you were not born?
Gaurav: Yes.
Swamiji: It says this, so he knows it. I say the same thing, but when I say it, you will not believe it, because I am seen with your eyes as a person. Thus, you will never believe me when I say, “You are unborn, I am unborn, they are all unborn, yet, due to deception, they appear to be born.” Only deception can be given up. Why? It is not there. You have not to undo it and throw it somewhere. Don’t accept that you were born. Just that. That power is there. But the mental power, ego power, intellectual power, all three taken together, do not allow it. There is only one, and it is for you to know this. In my company, you are knowing it. I have heard you say many times, “I do not like imagination.” Why? You became That. When all of you became That, why would you not own it? But because daily you have to become hungry and depend on some hotel or person to eat, you forget. You sleep, and you forget. You are not in satsang, you forget.
The possibility is there—maybe for someone. For someone, you only point out me. [Some people in the audience pointed towards him.] I never point out, because I am That. [Laughter] Why do I have to expect your appreciation or denunciation? They do not belong to me. If you say a hundred abuses to Akash (Space), it will not be insulted. Appreciate it, it will not be elated. Give any medicine to it, it will go down. Do anything, it will be as it is. Watch, for your sake how much I do and never tell you I am the doer. Because there is no deh abhiman, no body acceptance, that I am the body. I am speaking, but it is very obvious that the body cannot speak. A dead body never speaks. Why would you not know the Self?
The Self is always there, but it is not seen, heard, smelled, touched, tasted, nor does it go for anything. The Self alone is, not two. But the moment you wake up, duality, or deception, comes. I daily say, to whoever comes near me, “When you wake up, you say you are a name and form and you do professional work. But when you are asleep, unconscious, or dead, why don’t you say this?” If you have to remain a human being, you have to experience everything that a human being experiences for a hundred years, and then die. So you have to see yourself as dead, but you will never know you are dead. When you know you are dead, after death there is no wife, no children, no country, no climate, no world. How clear it is! But it is only clear when Siddhant Kal (Time of the Principle, beyond time and space) comes. Siddhant Kal means you are nobody, you are unborn.
I brought the word “unborn.” In Hindi, it is ajar (unborn), amar (undying), avinashee, indestructible. You hear this, but the brain has not been made capable enough by maya to know the Source. It is me sitting over here always talking about the Source. You hear about the Source, but you can’t reach it, you read about it, but you can’t reach it, because it is not the realm of the human senses. So you can be sure enough that you have reached there, and then work or don’t work, you have the choice. You can leave this profession altogether—no one will come to you if you declare “I am not a doctor.” You come at eleven o’clock, but if I say, “Please come at nine,” you come at nine. What happens to you? Your whole engagement for two hours is cancelled. Guru is a power. From there, a thought comes, “Let me go up the mountain and make a house, because on the road there is noise.” Everybody is living on the road and wants to be living there. But a thought comes, “There is noise here, I’ll sleep better there.” No. You are the same person wherever you go—whether you go to the jungle, or remain on the mountain, or remain near the road. Go anywhere, you are the same mind, the same illusion, the same deception. …
I say if you have to remain a human being, be a better human being. “Be a better human being” means speak that much that everybody likes you. If you meddle with things and disturb somebody’s program, he will not like it; he will not call you a second time. This is what we can do, and all of you have done it. You like each other because you appreciate each other. Those who do not appreciate, to them nobody goes and nobody asks to come near. So all of you are aware that this place is good. You don’t want to go where agyanis (those unknowledgeable of the Self) are, ego-ridden are, mental are, intellectual are. For no reason they insult you, and then you don’t like it. You come from there and like to be in satsang. Because in satsang, I’m the one who makes you a satsangee (one who knows the Truth). All of you have come and so many minutes have passed, but you do not know that you think. Your thinking became absorbed in the Self. It is not that you have thrown it away; it has been absorbed in the Self. As long as it is absorbed, you are pure and free. But it will come again—as soon as you open the eyes and the mind, it will come, and the problems will come. …
You cannot take anybody’s name, because you feel that they will be offended. In this way, you compromise your whole life. Then there are your relations, whom you have made very important—and you know they were not born and even you were not born. I may say these things and you may hear me, and you are free. But as soon as you start your own thinking, the mind came. It is not seen where it is, but you know it is there. Why? Anything which you see and is in front of your eyes, you can believe. But the mind, which you never see, why do you think it is there? Yet everybody concludes, “I am like that.” So whenever I turns into am, you will die. And when am turns into I, you will never die. Kak Bhusanji says this. [Laughter]
Gaurav: Thank you so much, Swamiji.
Swamiji: Thank you. So we call people and do satang, because if we are just two persons, we will not talk for more than twenty minutes. We know satsang is essential. Kalateet came here in the seat, so he cannot say anything about his island. He will speak satsang. Please.
Kalateet: … It is so necessary to listen to you, thank you so much.
Swamiji: It is only possible by listening, and listening, and listening—and you became That. The result is that all of you are uninvolved, but not free. Freedom lies in your own intellect. If you can purify it, knowledge will come, freedom will come, love will come. Till then, all three will be missing. We have used all kinds of strategies. Kalateet means timelessness. If you are timelessness, you will not be human. Time makes you divided: one day, one year, ten years, a hundred years, destruction, death. Time is one, space is one, everything is one. Many times I have said, one, one, one are not three, which all of you have been taught. …
You know everything, elders have given you the knowledge that you are no more a human being, but you love the human being. That’s all. So we talk about human beings. We love them and we want to see them, because eyes you have and I have; we want to hear them, because ears you have and I have; you want to speak to them and I want to speak to them. All this human will go on. Even you will die, I will die. The one who is not there as a human being, he never dies. …
Gyaan: … Regardless of what language you speak, we love listening to you. As you say, words have no meaning. When you speak Hindi, really words have no meaning for me, but how come I feel so good? Your knowledge comes through your voice, through your words, through every aspect of you. Because when you speak, we become united with that You. …
Swamiji: Everybody has choice. A human being is the only one, not those of other species, who comes to know he has choice. Daily, he knows he doesn’t like death, so he should not choose death. Whatever he has—intellect, ego, or the Knower in him, he should use that. What is that which says, “Choose no death!”? No death will only be in no form. All forms will die. You know this. So a human being is great in choosing. If he chooses death, he will die. If he chooses no death, he will come to know that which is no death never dies. Then he knows that death does not exist. But this is not possible for a human being, because he has been made intellectual, mental, and egotistic, or only words and body. He is already born with a body, so nobody has to convince him that he has a body. It will be a conviction if somebody says, “You were never born, you were no body.”
That is why Guru and scripture will not succeed. Guru may look nice because he has the knowledge and you have the knowledge. Knowledge and knowledge will meet anytime you speak, but then you have to know where knowledge is. Knowledge is not in a human being. I have told you many times that I heard the voice of Guru at a time when he wanted to speak to me. [In Canada in 1970, after Swamiji’s money and belongings were stolen.] But I never saw his face. I saw his feet, I saw his size, but I never I saw the face with which he was speaking. But I heard his voice. This means that voice can be without a body. So when Guru speaks, his voice is without body. Guru knows this.
Whenever he changes it and speaks with meaning, then you understand meaning. Otherwise, you will never understand voice. I am saying, aaaaaaaaa, aaaaaaaaa, aaaaaaaaa, aaaaaaaaa. Sound is there, voice is there, but you will not know, because you only know through meaning , and meaning means form. In satsang, you are made to listen, but that is what you can do: form. When form is deleted completely, you have no meaning, which happens in meditation. That unchanging face, that unchanging voice comes—through you. You meditate, the body meditates, and in that your own voice appears faceless, formless, mindless, bodiless. It is just possible at that time, if anybody is pure enough, he can know it. …
This is the practice. Practice is not repeating the same words, like a carpenter saws. He cuts wood by his practice, but for us the practice is the Self. It is called Atma Drishti (Self Vision), not chakshu drishti (eyes vision). Atma Drishti, Atma Gyan (Self Knowledge), Atma Bhavana (Self Experience), Atma Darshan (Self Vision), Atma fragrance, everything is Atma. This means for a human being the technique is what he can understand. He understands Akash, Space. If I say you have attention, which is not gold or silver, that attention can be one with the attention, and then it is Space. It takes time, but the solution does exist, provided you are ready to have it through your practice. What is the solution? The Self alone is. “The Self alone is” means in deep sleep, Self; in the waking state, Self; in the death state, Self; in conflict, Self; in fighting, Self; in sitting, Self; in any situation, Self; in any program, Self. Both—and Self alone is.
So there is only one. This does not happen to a human being, because a human being is under the sway of maya, the mind, which is Brahma, the creator. He made the creator as born. The creator was never born. You have not been given the power in your intellect to know how it happens that a child cries once when he is born. Why does he cry and from where does sound appear? At that time you know you have no power given to you to understand this. That is why the power other than what you have is called Guru power.
Guru knows that a child creates sound from the same place where form and sound have been created. The first sound of a human being is all the scriptures and all the languages of the world—they rest in that Om, which has no meaning. As Zachary said, people make a meaning of Om and God’s name. Here in satsang, you can hear this. If you can get it, to get it is through intellect, and intellect is viparya buddhi (intellect opposite to the Self). Any word you say is viparya (opposite). You can make any program, somebody will come and spoil it. [Laughter] As Charlie said, design is for a system, for a human being. For the Unborn, there is no design. So a human being cannot know the Unborn. This can be said. But then it is a challenge. …
Now is the time for meditation. Check: it is only Oneness that is the solution. If Self alone is, accept it. If Self alone is the whole world, accept it. At that time you don’t have to look for life and death—they are. On the relative field, life and death. Spring will come. Leaves are falling now, but new leaves will come. Your intellect will not have any answer. Still, you have to accept it. So why is it not good for you to appreciate a human being? Only he can attain this space of Oneness. When he is sleeping, it is the Self. When he is dead, it is the Self. When he is born, it is the Self. When he is studying, it is the Self. When he is getting married, it is the Self. When he is fighting, it is the Self. When he is divorcing, it is the Self. When he is dying, it is the Self. When he is getting old, it is the Self. When he is getting sick, it is the Self. When he is getting healthy, it is the Self.
On both sides, the Self is there. But man thinks one-sided. He says the Self should be pure and cannot be impure. When a child begins to know pure, he chides his parents, “You do not know! You are ignorant. You are this, you are that.” Not only this, whenever the eyes are open, your Guru becomes your friend, or twam (you), and you become aham (I), and you forget Akash. If you are seeing Akash and I am seeing Akash, then why aham and twam? From where do I and you come? It is only Self. Close your eyes. … [Meditation]
Take your own time. Since this technique or meditation is the highest work, we do it. Its result is uninvolvement. But freedom comes when you decide, with your purified intellect, that you are the one Self—under one circumstance, which is the Self alone. Sleep, sushupti, or death, as well as all works are, and you take them as they are: sleep as sleep, without mind, and sleepless, with mind. In mind, whatever has been done, you can do—and you can stop doing. It is your choice. We choose to be the Self, and then the Self alone is. In Oneness it is the Self, and that is the solution. You should not be disappointed that you became a human being and you will never get the solution, the Freedom. You are the only one, as a human being, who can do this work and attain Paramarth, Supreme Meaning. “Supreme Meaning” means no meaning which the mind makes.
Since we have done this work for forty-eight years, all of you are the same. You can choose to do and not to do, but you are the Self. It is called Me. That is why whenever I say you are Pure Me, I have reduced the words from so much multiplicity to only one Pure—Pure when you are in deep sleep or death, and Pure when you are giggling, laughing, weeping, relating, attending trouble, attending activity, all that. All is Self. But if you forget this, it is nobody’s fault. Only you have to see whether you forget the Self or only remember the world, names and forms. To remember name and form, you need mind. To forget name and form, you need sleep. But for me, you have never done anything wrong. There is no mistake. You have never deceived me, because Me is so high that no deception can ever reach it. But whenever I use words, making you somebody else and me somebody else, the sense of separation is created. That is why in meditation you remove the sense of separation. This is in any language, it does not mean that in Hebrew, French, or Zulu it is not. Everywhere the Self alone is. But when all human beings learn language, they forget the Self, or Maun (Absolute Silence). …
Arun: … Truly, it is the Self. You speak that, you make us feel that, we are that, and we will always be that. You assume your form and give us the knowledge of that purity for our sake. You already are that. Through your presence, through your words, which reach that Space with such clarity, you transport us into that, so that coming over here, however many times I’ve come, it never ever ceases to amaze me and make me feel just wonderful. …
Swamiji: When you speak a language in which the Self is appreciated, you like it, therefore many people, without being aware and treating me as the Self, come and appreciate. Then appreciation is called ego gratification, so it is me, being one with all of your language, who says, “No, no, no. Don’t appreciate me.” Yet whenever you meet together, you appreciate only me—which is not this face, but Me. Since I know this, I never conclude you are not appreciating Me. Appreciate anybody, it is Me. Denounce anybody, it is Me. Why would you feel bad about it? But no, you are trained into what is good language and bad language, what is a good dead and a bad deed. You are a human being, so you treat your kitchen very pure and, with the same intellect, you think your bathroom is not pure. This is the human difficulty. We speak about it all the time. If you remain human, it is not that I am in difficulty, you too are in difficulty. Difficulty you don’t like, because difficulty makes you aware of death and destruction, and you don’t like both. But a human being does both. …
We are all in front of Me. But you think a chair is there and a person is sitting in it, maybe with flowers, so you are in front of me. But that is not the meaning which I say is the ideal. Me! I always try to include you as Me. Because your training has been the sense of separation, I am a personality and you are a personality. Two persons. It is not that somebody has trained this forcibly; rather, for you as a born person, aham (the individual I-sense) has to come. Without aham you cannot take birth, so aham is first. But when you are not born, it is hidden. Aham. That is why you miss it. Therefore, we have made the program that we meet daily. Anytime you can learn it, then you will not miss it. But sleep and the waking state come, so you miss it. The moment you are awake, you forget that it is a longer sleep, it is not the waking state. In the waking state the whole world is working—together or not together, it doesn’t matter. They are making houses, that’s all.
Kullu you have seen, there was not a single tree here. Not a twig. But now, so many buildings are here, and they call it civilization. At this age you have to see for yourself that when you were born you did not bring a single needle with you. And now, how much change has taken place. Guruji reminds that you will never take a single needle with you, because you never brought it. You are alone. You will remain alone. Nobody will die with you. They will help you, but meagre help, if they have time. Nobody can do that type of service that many of you are doing for each other; there are many examples of it. With Dadaji, till he was last, our people were going to him, going to him, one after the other, because one person cannot do it. There are certain things that one person cannot do. He should accept this. There are certain things that he can do. He should accept this. In this way, we have made a program. You can watch, I was all alone in Vancouver, but we have done so much later on. That means at this time, in this age, some power is making it possible that together you should be able to listen that you are unborn, unchanging, undying. Thank you.